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Author Topic: What Papal Docuмents Support the Ordination or the Consecration etc..  (Read 6387 times)

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Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
You quoted a half sentence of the form.  This is the official English translation of the entire sentence (I'm still trying to locate the Latin):  "Father, you know what is in every heart. Inspire the heart of your servant whom you have chosen to make a bishop."  Only an idiot would deny that this signifies that the person is being raised to the bishopric, considering that it is part of the form itself.


It doesn't say we're "about to" (future tense) make this man a bishop.  It says "inspire the heart of your servant whom you [God] have chosen to make a bishop."



And that sentence precedes the one in which the half sentence you quoted above appears. This sentence clearly asks the Father to pour out upon the one being consecrated the same Spirit that Christ bestowed on the Apostles Holy Ghost. Let us again read the second half of the consecration prayer in context:


1) Pour out on the chosen one the Perfect [governing] Spirit, the same Spirit that Christ gave to the Apostles.
2) You have chosen to make this man a bishop.
3) May he feed thy holy flock (which is the teaching office of a bishop)
4) May he minister to you (God), by reconciling us and offering the gifts of you Holy Church; may he have the power to forgive sins (the office of sanctification)
5) May he assign the duties to the flock, and loose every bond by the power that Christ gave to the Apostles (governing office of a bishop)
 
The threefold office of teaching, governing and sanctifying, which is proper to a bishop, is clearly signified in the form.


What is laughable is your desperate attempt to cast doubt on it.  A Catholics should be happy to learn that the new rite of episcopal consecration is valid, yet you're not.  Why do you think that is?



SPelli, the important question that you leave unanswered is what does the Catholic Church consider the necessary graces of a Bishop?

 What is clearly expressed in the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration but is missing in the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination is the concept of a Bishop having the grace to "consecrate" OILS which are then used in the approved rites to confer certain other Sacraments.

The New Rite of Episcopal Ordination does not mention this process of consecrating people and things at all. In fact the New Rite uses the word "appoint" [constituisti] not the word "consecrate" [sanctifica], which is used in the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration. This should be the primary indicator that the essence of the graces given are different in these different rites. 

Again, IF the bishop has received the power to "consecrate" people and things through the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration (which, in fact occurs), then there is nothing wrong with adding another ceremony, such as the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination, to "constitute" or "appoint" that bishop as a Archbishop/Metropolitan/Patriarch.

But in order to be a true Catholic "bishop" (as the Catholic church understands the word "bishop") in the first place, the person must have the power to "consecrate." If the "bishop" (actually "priest") has not received the power to "consecrate," he cannot be a "bishop" in the true sense of the term in Catholic theology. This new "bishop" is simply an institutional overseer in that case, a ruler without sacramental consecratory powers that true Traditional Catholic bishops have.

What is happening in the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination to the "bishop" is exactly the same kind of thing that happened in the Anglican rite of priestly ordination. The word "priest" was used by the Anglicans, but as Leo XIII said when the Anglican use the word "priest" it does not mean the same thing as what Catholics mean by "priest." Apply the concepts from Apostolicae Curae, surrounding the Sacerdotal Priesthood, which Leo XIII said was missing in the Anglican rite, to the the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination.

Just as a "priest" who has not been given the power of the "Sacerdos" is not a real Catholic priest (as Leo XIII says), so a "bishop" who has not received the power to "consecrate" through the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration can never be a true Catholic "bishop" as that term is properly defined in Catholic theology. 

Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
I was quoting the English translation.  But saying the sentence in question is required for signification, means it is required for validity, since validity requires that the form sufficiently signify the effect, which it won't do if it doesn't include that which is "required for signification."

SPelli, your point above is irrelevant. Of course, the quoted sentence is also required for validity. But this fact is not because Pius XII added the dependent clause with "ad valorum requisita" before the quoted sentence. No, rather the sentence quoted by Pius XII is necessary for validity simply because that sentence is in the "Preface." And the entire "Preface" is "the form" of the Sacrament. And the entire "form" is necessary for validity of any Sacrament. 

I will illustrate. Here is the words of Pius XII in Sacramentum Ordinis relating to the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration:

Denique in Ordinatione seu Consecratione Episcopali materia est manuum impositio quae ab Episcopo consecratore fit. Forma autem constat verbis « Praefationis », quorum haec sunt essentialia ideoque ad valorem requisita : « Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica ».

The words bolded above are part of the "Preface." In fact, it is the last sentence of the Preface. The "form" of the Sacrament consists of the entire Preface. Here is the entire Preface (last sentence bolded):

Vere dignum et justum est, aequum et salutare, nos tibi semper, et ubique gratias agere, Domine sancte, Pater omnipotens, aeterne Deus, honor omnium dignitatum, quae gloriae tuae sacris famulantur ordinibus. Deus, qui Moysen famulum tuum secreti familiaris affatu, inter cetera coelestis docuмenta culturae, de habitu quoque indumenti sacerdotalis instituens, electum Aaron mystico amictu vestiri inter sacra jussisti, ut intelligentiae sensum de exemplis priorum caperet secutura posteritas, ne eruditio doctrinae tuae ulli deesset aetati. cuм et apud veteres reverentiam ipsa significationum species obtineret, et apud nos certiora essent experimenta rerum, quam aenigmata figurarum. Illius namque Sacerdotii anterioris habitus, nostrae mentis ornatus est, et Pontificalem gloriam non jam nobis honor commendat vestium, sed splendor animarum. Quia et illa, quae tunc carnalibus blandiebantur obtutibus, ea potius, quae in ipsis erant, intelligenda poscebant. Et idcirco huic famulo tuo, quem ad summi Sacerdotii ministerium elegisti, hanc, quaesumus Domine, gratiam largiaris, ut quidquid illa velamina in fulgore auri, in nitore gemarum, et in multimodi operis varietate signabant, hoc in ejus moribus actibusque clarescat. Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum, coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica.

The "validity" of the Sacrament requires the entire Preface. So, obviously, the last sentence of that Preface ALSO is necessary for validity because it is part of the whole Preface.

When Pius XII says "quorum haec sunt essentialia ideoque ad valorem requisita" he is simply saying that the last sentence in the Preface ("Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum, coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica.") is very important and essential for signification/meaning. He is not saying that the other words of "the form" are not necessary for the validity of the Sacrament. He is emphasizing the importance of the last sentence to understand the meaning/significaiton of "the form."

Again, if Pius XII intended the words "Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum, coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica" to be the complete "form" of the Sacrament, he could have said the following:

Denique in Ordinatione seu Consecratione Episcopali materia est manuum impositio quae ab Episcopo consecratore fit. Forma autem constat verbis : « Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica ».

But Pius XII did not say that. Instead he said (note the bolded part):

Denique in Ordinatione seu Consecratione Episcopali materia est manuum impositio quae ab Episcopo consecratore fit. Forma autem constat verbis « Praefationis », quorum haec sunt essentialia ideoque ad valorem requisita : « Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica ».

He said, clearly, that "the form consists of the 'Preface,' of which the following is essential and therefore required for signification/meaning."

Regardless, of all I said above, the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination does not even include the sentence "Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica." Pius XII said that sentence was essential for signification/meaning of the "the form" of the Sacrament defining the Episcopate, but it is no where to be found in the New Rite of Episcopal Ordination. Yet, you (and almost the whole world) says that Paul VI can just discard what Pius XII said and make up a new rite that replaces the traditional rite. This is ridiculous. 

The Paul VI New Rite of Episcopal Ordination can NEVER replace the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration because the NREO does not signify the conferring of the same graces as those conferred in the TREC. The two rites have different functions. 

But the NREO can be used, in some cases, as an additional rite for the elevation/appointment of a previously "consecrated" bishop to a higher office of Archbishop/Metropolitan/Patriarch. And this is why Paul VI legitimately added this new rite to the Roman Pontifical. The way is was added to the Roman Pontifical used sleight-of-hand to make people not paying close attention think that he did something that he did not do. And here we are 55 years later and certain people still refuse to acknowledge the Truth.


Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
Because the absolutions given by the bishops and priests they ordain would be valid, and hence more souls would be saved, and because the Masses they celebrated would be valid, and hence Catholics throughout the would not be committing idolatry 24/7 by worshipping bread. Those are a few obvious reasons that any sane Catholic would be happy to learn that the NREC is valid.

Yes, you can't imagine that what happened to the Anglican rites could happen in the Catholic Church. It is too horrible for you to consider. But this is exactly what has happened. And it was by design by the freemasons and communists who infiltrated the Church.

And remember that priests ordained in the Traditional Rite still exist within the Catholic Church (the mystical body as defined by Pius XII) to this day. Some of those priests are very old. Some are in the Ecclesia Dei institutes, some are SSPX, some are independent/sedevacantists. The traditionally-ordained priests and traditionally-consecrated bishops who are still active represent the true Sacramental hierarchy of the Catholic Church. The solution is to seek out those true Priests for the Sacraments.

The New Rite "priests" and "bishops" are not Catholic priests or Catholic bishops, as those words have been defined doctrinally. The New Rite people form a parallel Counterfeit hierarchy with Bergoglio at the head. These are the "false prophets" that Jesus warns about in Matthew 24.