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Author Topic: Can Popes Become Heretics? Marshall interviews St. Bellarmine expert Ryan Grant  (Read 1247 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

Re: Can Popes Become Heretics? Marshall interviews St. Bellarmine expert Ryan Grant
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2020, 07:40:13 PM »
Ladislaus, I am not strong on history. Are you saying there was no Pope during the Great Western Schism?

Also, are you able to give the de fide teaching that you are talking about that "the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Church cannot fail and lead souls to hell".

Geremia's question about a "definition that there is a visible pope", must be alluding to the following declaration of Pastor Aeternus: "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the Lord Himself, that is to say, by Divine Law, that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the Primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this Primacy: let him be anathema.


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Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: Can Popes Become Heretics? Marshall interviews St. Bellarmine expert Ryan Grant
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2020, 08:05:16 PM »

Quote
Also, are you able to give the de fide teaching that you are talking about that "the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Church cannot fail and lead souls to hell".



Pope Pius IX - 1864
The Syllabus Of Errors

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm

Quote
V. ERRORS CONCERNING THE CHURCH AND HER RIGHTS

(. . .)

23. Roman pontiffs and ecuмenical councils have wandered outside the limits of their powers, have usurped the rights of princes, and have even erred in defining matters of faith and morals. — Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.

Council of Trent

Session XXII, ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS

http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch22.htm


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CANON VII.--If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema.

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Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: Can Popes Become Heretics? Marshall interviews St. Bellarmine expert Ryan Grant
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 08:27:03 PM »
Quote from: Plenus Venter on February 09, 2020, 07:40:13 PM
Geremia's question about a "definition that there is a visible pope", must be alluding to the following declaration of Pastor Aeternus: "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the Lord Himself, that is to say, by Divine Law, that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the Primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this Primacy: let him be anathema.
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This was a condemnation of the protestant error that there is no papacy, and that whatever function St. Peter had was only for him personally. Perpetual successors means St. Peter will not only have successors, but that the papacy is a permanent institution in the Church that will last until the end of time. But as you can see, it does not specify a time limit for how long the office is allowed to be vacant, nor is it a prophecy telling us that there will never be a vacancy of 50 years. The office of the papacy is perpetual, that's the point.
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As an aside, I'm always curious what people are thinking when they say "The papacy can't be vacant for 60 years." It can't? Or else what? The world will end? God will work some sort of miracle to install another pope? Some heretic anti-pope will suddenly become invested with the papacy? Or ...? I wish one of these people would complete the thought: "The see of Peter can't be vacant for 60 years, otherwise XYZ would happen."
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Offline Geremia

Re: Can Popes Become Heretics? Marshall interviews St. Bellarmine expert Ryan Grant
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2020, 11:28:55 AM »
Quote from: Plenus Venter on February 09, 2020, 07:40:13 PM
Geremia's question about a "definition that there is a visible pope", must be alluding to the following declaration of Pastor Aeternus: "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the Lord Himself, that is to say, by Divine Law, that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the Primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this Primacy: let him be anathema.
Nothing there explicitly about visibility, though.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Fr. Ripperger & Ryan Grant on the state of theology in the Church
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2020, 11:33:29 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on February 09, 2020, 06:38:35 PM
That theological note sounds made up.
No, theologians have used it.
Ott describes it as:
Quote
3. A Teaching proximate to Faith (sententia fidei proxima) is a doctrine, which is regarded by theologians generally as a truth of Revelation, but which has not yet been finally promulgated as such by the Church.
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