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Author Topic: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?  (Read 7571 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2025, 07:25:05 AM »
Women are not allowed in the Sanctuary of our chapel , either for cleaning or for decorating

That's good to hear, but, as I said, I would not permit lay men in there either, but instead would confer Minor Orders on any men that needed to be involved in serving Mass or entering the Sacristy, so for me not having women in there is just a half-measure, just part of the way back toward restoring the true theology of the Divine Liturgy, where it's clerical/priestly action representing the Church, the public prayer of the Church offered to God on behalf of all the faithful via her authoritatively-designated representatives ... and not people (including lay men) just "doing" stuff.  When Divine Liturgy is offered by designated represenatatives, i.e. Mass offered by a priest, the responses said by the clergy serving Mass, or the Divine Office said even by deacons, 

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2025, 07:30:58 AM »
Well, while you're theologizing women in the sanctuary, the sanctuary needs cleaning and women, clean. Since I've been alive, I've only seen women doing the vacuuming, sweeping, dusting, flowers, etc. in the sanctuary. No one needs to take a class in armchair theology about it.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2025, 07:44:07 AM »
Well, while you're theologizing women in the sanctuary, the sanctuary needs cleaning and women, clean. Since I've been alive, I've only seen women doing the vacuuming, sweeping, dusting, flowers, etc. in the sanctuary. No one needs to take a class in armchair theology about it.

So, people like you are the problem, where your entire perspective is a practical one and based on what you've seen.

Take one more "logical step" (and I know that logic and theology hurt your brain), and you're exactly where the Novus Ordo ended up.

For not wanting to actually apply theology to the question, you show some great hubris in denouncing all 20th and 19th century theologians (because they teach things you don't like to hear), and you exemplify exactly what Bishop Williamson denounced, this notion of the "practical" where idea don't matter.  Ideas absolutely matter, and it's the stupid ideas or non-ideas in this post that led precisely, step by step, to the Conciliar Liturgical revolution.  You need to be silenced, since you do nothing but spread error (and in many cases heresy) on this forum.

"I don't care about theology or the Divine Liturgy.  Something needs cleaned, and women clean.  Since I've been alive, it's what I saw ..." -- doesn't get more ridiculous than this, and you need to know when to shut up.  If you have a theological rebuttal to the point I made, then have at it, but this is nothing more than you hurling bovine excrement.  You know nothing of the Church's theology regarding Divine Liturgy, and so evidently your only real objections to the Novus Ordo are that you don't "like" some of what they do, even though you have no idea why and don't even care to know why.  Yeah, so the next generation will just say, following your idiocy, "Well, we need altar servers, and there aren't enough boys who want to do it, and my entire life I've seen altar girls, and so it must be OK."  That is the same level of stupidity that you just spewed from your brain and keyboard into this last post.  With such an attitude, you have absolutely ZERO actual theological reason to reject the Conciliar Liturgical changes.

Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2025, 09:30:05 AM »
That's good to hear, but, as I said, I would not permit lay men in there either, but instead would confer Minor Orders on any men that needed to be involved in serving Mass or entering the Sacristy, so for me not having women in there is just a half-measure, just part of the way back toward restoring the true theology of the Divine Liturgy, where it's clerical/priestly action representing the Church, the public prayer of the Church offered to God on behalf of all the faithful via her authoritatively-designated representatives ... and not people (including lay men) just "doing" stuff.  When Divine Liturgy is offered by designated represenatatives, i.e. Mass offered by a priest, the responses said by the clergy serving Mass, or the Divine Office said even by deacons,
Yes that's true. I'm certain Laymen clean the Sanctuary. What about adult men who serve Mass and sing the Liturgy during Advent and Easter?

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2025, 10:18:19 AM »
So, people like you are the problem, where your entire perspective is a practical one and based on what you've seen.

Take one more "logical step" (and I know that logic and theology hurt your brain), and you're exactly where the Novus Ordo ended up.
So dumb. We've had lay women singing in the choirs of all the trad chapels I've been too, even nuns on occasion too. Don't let that damage you back into the NO tho, it's ok.