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Author Topic: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?  (Read 7566 times)

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2025, 02:28:16 PM »
Can they, or should they? In most small chapels the parishioners clean and do the routine maintenance rather than hiring professionals.
Who is more likely to be available during the week days? The women!
The men are (hopefully) at work and the priest lives elsewhere in a priory. (I’m thinking here of typical SSPX or Resistance chapel.)
I’ve assisted my friend on a number of occasions to clean in the sanctuary. Since I’d never done so before, she gave me verbal instructions on proper protocol. The priest chose the cleaners, both female and male, on a rotating schedule and provided instruction. My friend had to get permission for me to assist. Since Fr. was fairly well acquainted with me and trusted my friend, he gave his okay. He did not allow children under 16 unless they were altar boys, to be in the sanctuary in his absence.
If he had to rely on adult men to clean, the sanctuary would have gotten rather shabby. He also pointed out that when it came to things like flower arrangements and thoroughness, women were better at the job. We see dust and cobwebs where a lot of men overlook. We tend to be better at choosing and arranging flowers.
Perhaps the ideal set up would be a team of paid professional cleaners, all male, all Catholic, but how many churches have it? The home chapel I often attend is maintained by the family who lives there, two parents, a grandma, and 13 children! 
The more organized chapel I also attend has a cleaning and maintenance apostolate that operates on a rotating schedule. Women outnumber men 4:1.
God uses whoever is available. Think of the wicked prophet Balaam. In His effort to stop him from cursing the Israelites in battle, there was no holy man, no holy woman, no child, and when God sent an Angel with flaming sword, the prophet was so blinded by his intent to sin, God used a dumb female ass to get the message through Balaam’s thick skull.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2025, 03:53:56 PM »
As per usual, my perspective is a theological one.  Just by way of contrast, before my theological and doctrinal enlightenment, I was advocating for altar girls when I was a young kid in the Novus Ordo and had no clue.

In any case, I personally hold that it's inappropriate for women to be in the sanctuary due to the fact that it's a sacred space set aside for Liturgical actions, and (analogous to what took place in the Temple of the Old Testament), I hold that only clerics may enter the sanctuary, and that is in fact the primary Minor Order, the "Porter", permitting entry into the sacred liturgical space.  Of course, I also hold that lay men should not be in the sanctuary and I advocate an restoration of permanent Minor Orders for those who would be permitted into the Sanctuary.

Sanctuary itself is not a huge space, and one of the duties of the Porter should in fact be to clean the Sanctuary, i.e. is not the same as having to clean the entire church, which is usually quite the ordeal.  Most sanctuaries are hard floors that just require some dusting and occasional mopping and are relatively easy to maintain.  Various altar linens and the like could be retrieved by a Porter and then handed off to whoever might be properly delegated to care for them.

Eroding the sacredness, the separation, of the sanctuary as the space set aside for the priestly action of the Holy Sactifice of the Mass IMO is just the beginning of the desacralization that led to loss of respect for the Sacred Liturgy in general.  Even the angels tremble to enter into the sanctuary.

So, my opinion is that no one who does not at least have the Minor Order of Porter should be permitted to enter the Sanctuary, even outside of normal Liturgical functions, and that would obviously preclude women, and then any men who do not have the necessary Minor Order.  Obviously of course there can be emergencies, etc. ... but they would be exceptions to the rule, just like a layman or lay woman may handle the Blessed Sacrament in some emergency, such as a fire or the like.


Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2025, 04:28:55 PM »
As per usual, my perspective is a theological one.  Just by way of contrast, before my theological and doctrinal enlightenment, I was advocating for altar girls when I was a young kid in the Novus Ordo and had no clue.

In any case, I personally hold that it's inappropriate for women to be in the sanctuary due to the fact that it's a sacred space set aside for Liturgical actions, and (analogous to what took place in the Temple of the Old Testament), I hold that only clerics may enter the sanctuary, and that is in fact the primary Minor Order, the "Porter", permitting entry into the sacred liturgical space.  Of course, I also hold that lay men should not be in the sanctuary and I advocate an restoration of permanent Minor Orders for those who would be permitted into the Sanctuary.

Sanctuary itself is not a huge space, and one of the duties of the Porter should in fact be to clean the Sanctuary, i.e. is not the same as having to clean the entire church, which is usually quite the ordeal.  Most sanctuaries are hard floors that just require some dusting and occasional mopping and are relatively easy to maintain.  Various altar linens and the like could be retrieved by a Porter and then handed off to whoever might be properly delegated to care for them.

Eroding the sacredness, the separation, of the sanctuary as the space set aside for the priestly action of the Holy Sactifice of the Mass IMO is just the beginning of the desacralization that led to loss of respect for the Sacred Liturgy in general.  Even the angels tremble to enter into the sanctuary.

So, my opinion is that no one who does not at least have the Minor Order of Porter should be permitted to enter the Sanctuary, even outside of normal Liturgical functions, and that would obviously preclude women, and then any men who do not have the necessary Minor Order.  Obviously of course there can be emergencies, etc. ... but they would be exceptions to the rule, just like a layman or lay woman may handle the Blessed Sacrament in some emergency, such as a fire or the like.
Though this sounds great and makes a lot of sense,

Logicistically speaking there are not enough young men stepping up to be Porters.

 I am not saying this to justify women in the sanctuary, personally I don't volunteer to clean because I don't want to have to go in the sanctuary.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2025, 04:46:54 PM »
Though this sounds great and makes a lot of sense,

Logicistically speaking there are not enough young men stepping up to be Porters.

 I am not saying this to justify women in the sanctuary, personally I don't volunteer to clean because I don't want to have to go in the sanctuary.

Well, that's always been the reason also to allow laymen to be altar boys, just putting on the cassock to make it "look like" they were clerics, and that can be given as the excuse to permit altar girls also, that there just aren't enough men, etc.

I dispute that.  I think you can find enough young men, then when they're ready, confer the Minor Order of Porter on them, and then they could take care of what's needed to clean the sanctuary ... again, typically just a very small area that does not require a huge amount of upkeep.

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2025, 04:59:29 PM »
Well, that's always been the reason also to allow laymen to be altar boys, just putting on the cassock to make it "look like" they were clerics, and that can be given as the excuse to permit altar girls also, that there just aren't enough men, etc.

I dispute that.  I think you can find enough young men, then when they're ready, confer the Minor Order of Porter on them, and then they could take care of what's needed to clean the sanctuary ... again, typically just a very small area that does not require a huge amount of upkeep.
But isn't the problem getting the priests to do this and then enforce it. It is not something the laity can change.