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Author Topic: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?  (Read 7573 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2025, 12:18:08 PM »
From what I understand, women specifically not in the sanctuary is a tradition of the Catholic Church. I can't remember who wrote the encyclical on this, but there may be more than one.
I don't think so, but if there is I would like to see it, I mean, the nuns have always cleaned the sanctuary, arranged the flowers etc.

Offline Everlast22

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2025, 12:21:09 PM »
I don't think so, but if there is I would like to see it, I mean, the nuns have always cleaned the sanctuary, arranged the flowers etc.
Well that would mean there is a distinguished difference (made by the Church) between a consecrated nun and any lay woman. 


Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2025, 12:34:09 PM »
"Let women keep silence in the churches" seems clear enough to me, but either way, nowhere does he say woman cannot clean the sanctuary.

In the OT, only the high priest was allowed in what could be considered the sanctuary, and in the NT, only men are permitted to be in the sanctuary during Mass, benediction etc., but woman are not forbidden to step foot in the sanctuary when necessary at other times, that idea is ridiculous.
 
Actually only the high priest was allowed in the Holy of Holies (after a period of celibacy before it was his turn to act as high priest) the other priests who were not celibate served throughout the sanctuary. Their Holy of Holies is our tabernacle. 

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2025, 01:05:51 PM »
Actually only the high priest was allowed in the Holy of Holies (after a period of celibacy before it was his turn to act as high priest) the other priests who were not celibate served throughout the sanctuary. Their Holy of Holies is our tabernacle.
Thank you Miseremini, that's good info.

Re: Can laywomen clean in the sanctuary?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2025, 01:17:54 PM »
That's good to hear, but, as I said, I would not permit lay men in there either, but instead would confer Minor Orders on any men that needed to be involved in serving Mass or entering the Sacristy, so for me not having women in there is just a half-measure, just part of the way back toward restoring the true theology of the Divine Liturgy, where it's clerical/priestly action representing the Church, the public prayer of the Church offered to God on behalf of all the faithful via her authoritatively-designated representatives ... and not people (including lay men) just "doing" stuff.  When Divine Liturgy is offered by designated represenatatives, i.e. Mass offered by a priest, the responses said by the clergy serving Mass, or the Divine Office said even by deacons,
So now the sacristy is off limits too!

Your above post is the ideal, but where and when in history has it ever been practiced?  Before Christ...in one temple in Jerusalem,...since Christ...at the Vatican, maybe a Kings palace, in monasteries, the odd cathedral or church connected to a seminary.  But throughout the whole rest of the world for the whole last two millennia, who has/had access to porters?  You propose that porters not only serve at Mass but also provide all the services required for the set up of Mass and the maintenance of the sanctuary and sacristy.

The idea of making laymen porters is a great idea, amazing that no one in the church for the last 2,000 years has thought of it.  This certainly would have helped the hundreds of missionaries who had to depend on lay people, or priests like Jean Vianney and thousands of others who had tiny isolated parishes.  Why in all that time hasn't someone in the church come up with that solution?  Can a priest make a layman a porter...see the problems?

If I had to guess I'd guess that even today in trad seminaries first year seminarians have had access to the sanctuary and sacristy.

On another note, how long has the church allowed brides and grooms to be married in the sanctuary and parents and godparents also when the font is located within the sanctuary (which is where it is in many old churches)?

Now that we know the ideal and that it's not going to happen, probably in our life time, what is the best solution we can come up with for our present day problem??????