Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Capt McQuigg on December 27, 2013, 06:02:26 PM
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
Now, think about the flip side of that coin. Pope Francis has advised the Church to not obsess over abortion.
He has also, on just about every chance, said something derogatory and insulting about Traditionalists, whether it's Pope Francis' embarrassing misuse of the word "Pelagian" or whether he thinks Trads are just nostalgic malcontents.
So, can anyone cite an example of Pope Francis extolling the virtues of Traditional Catholics? And by this I include Indults, who should be in Pope Francis' good graces but we all saw the draconian, and lightening quick, response to the FFI situation.
???
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that's funny. I haven't met many marxists. There sure are more trads.
It's a little strange he's trying to appeal to a smaller group with subversive ideals.
Huh?
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I think there might be a snake loose in the Domus Sanctae Marthae... :smirk:
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Wow! Good point, Cap'n! He's not said much of anything nice to Traditionalists at all!
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Yep. He would never dare say a harsh word about the true pertinacious formal schismatic like the Orthodox.
That clearly shows that this man is not sincere and is operating in bad faith.
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But, but, but, he prevented World War III.
Why doesn't poche know about that?
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
Now, think about the flip side of that coin. Pope Francis has advised the Church to not obsess over abortion.
He has also, on just about every chance, said something derogatory and insulting about Traditionalists, whether it's Pope Francis' embarrassing misuse of the word "Pelagian" or whether he thinks Trads are just nostalgic malcontents.
So, can anyone cite an example of Pope Francis extolling the virtues of Traditional Catholics? And by this I include Indults, who should be in Pope Francis' good graces but we all saw the draconian, and lightening quick, response to the FFI situation.
???
I'd like to know if he knows many prostitutes who are fine people, or if he knows many terrorists or pederasts who are fine people.
Does he know any bank robbers or drug pushers who are fine people? How about satanists: are there any fine people among the satanists he knows?
He seems to think highly of Muslim women, because he washed the feet of one of them on Holy Thursday. That probably got the attention of a lot of Mohammedans, and especially the fine people among them.
What about the Catholic saints? Are any of them fine people, according to Francis? Or the Roman martyrs: are any of the Roman martyrs fine people too, according to the Bishop of Rome?
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Why would Francis say a kind word about Traditionalists? He is through and through Novus Ordo which is completely alien to traditional Catholicism. You can't expect someone to say a kind word about something they either hate or have no clue as to what it's about.
Francis preaches a different religion other than Catholicism. That is a fact.
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The only thing I remember reading is something along the lines that he appreciates criticism from Traditionalists.
Whatever the hell that means. Sounds like a politician to me.
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The only thing I remember reading is something along the lines that he appreciates criticism from Traditionalists.
Whatever the hell that means. Sounds like a politician to me.
"Thank you for your input, your thoughts are important to us."
He is smart in that regard. If he knows he is going to lose faithful Catholics he can use their criticisms for attracting the opposite to his church.
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:dancing-banana:
Was it Euripides who said, "A man's character may be known by the company he keeps."?
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But, but, but, he prevented World War III.
Why doesn't poche know about that?
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I was busy in prayer with him to prevent World War III
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But, but, but, he prevented World War III.
Why doesn't poche know about that?
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I was busy in prayer with him to prevent World War III
World War III wasn't "hanging in the balance" and the entire event was a media-manufactured story.
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I found an announcement in Spanish in which the people of the TLM were blessed by the pope. This is in the Spanish version of Paix Liturgique. Apparently they say diffrent things in different languages.
Several members of the office Liturgique Paix had the grace to participate in the pilgrimage village Summorum Pontificuм which concluded on Sunday 27 October with the celebration of the feast of Christ the King , in the Basilica of Santa Maria sopra Minerva by Bishop Fernando Rifan , ordinary bishop of the apostolic Administration of St. John Mary Vianney ( Brazil ) .
Returning from Rome, our impression is very simple : ad Petri sedem Catholics 'extraordinary' are treated as 'ordinary' Catholics or , no pun intended , in Rome the presence of the representatives of the people Summorum Pontificuм is usually considered . Neither more nor less .
Therefore, we return to our parishes and dioceses strengthened with this simple hope that what is possible and normal banks of the Tiber , which is also tomorrow , the Seine , the Rhine, or the Tagus.
I - THE MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS THE PILGRIMS FRANCISCO
Your Eminence , Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos , during a pilgrimage to Rome Summorum Pontificuм Coetus Internationalis under the Year of Faith His Holiness Pope Francisco runs a cordial greeting , wishing that participation in the pious path near the tombs of the apostles, arouse fervent adherence to Christ , celebrated in the Eucharist and in the public worship of the Church , and seek a renewed impetus to the evangelical witness .
The Sovereign Pontiff , invoking the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the maternal protection of the Mother of God, taught , at heart, the implored Apostolic Blessing propitiatory peace and spiritual fervor , your Eminence , prelates , priests and all the faithful present in this holy celebration.
The blessing of the Holy Father was read during the Mass celebrated by Msgr Pozzo, secretary of the Commission Ecclesia Dei, in St. Peter's Basilica on Saturday 26 October. These lines, signed by the new Secretary of State, Monsignor Parolin, constituted a vibrant eco homily Cardinal, former chairman of the committee, and that title, principal architect of Summorum Pontificuм Motu Proprio issued by Pope Benedict XVI on 7 July 2007.
The cardinal, in his homily, addressing the Sovereign Pontiff use the "we" that was not majestic but collective-His Eminence was considered at that time as a simple member of the People Summorum Pontificuм-said, in effect, that "we are not alone holy Father, we are with the centuries of the Church and the legions of saints and martyrs. "A strong message that touched the hearts of the pilgrims.
http://es.paix-liturgique.org/?force=1
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
What happened to your accusations that Pope F was talking about atheistic capitalism- now it is Catholic capitalism ?
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
Poche, a capitalist is a business owner who provides services for the customer and jobs for the employee and pays taxes, hence working for the common good. The Marxist, in addition to having a track record of running death camps, denies God and thinks that man is the ultimate end. It's kind of like the way Pope Francis says "we come from others, we belong to others.."
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
I double posted, so I edited this one... :thinking:
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
What happened to your accusations that Pope F was talking about atheistic capitalism- now it is Catholic capitalism ?
If the Catholic capitalists act like athiests it is worse than athiests acting like athiests.
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
Poche, a capitalist is a business owner who provides services for the customer and jobs for the employee and pays taxes, hence working for the common good. The Marxist, in addition to having a track record of running death camps, denies God and thinks that man is the ultimate end. It's kind of like the way Pope Francis says "we come from others, we belong to others.."
If the capitalist priovides shoddy goods and services, pays low wages to his employees and maintains an unsafe work environment and cheats on his taxes or better yet manipulates his finances so that he doesn't have to pay the taxes that everyone else does then he is not acting for the common good. And if he pays low wages and maintains an unsafe work environment he is acting as a backhanded promoter of marxism.
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Geeze, this sentence was hard to follow. I had to bold the final part in order to get a better handle of what you said:
If the capitalist priovides shoddy goods and services, pays low wages to his employees and maintains an unsafe work environment and cheats on his taxes or better yet manipulates his finances so that he doesn't have to pay the taxes that everyone else does then he is not acting for the common good.
If I were to improve it, I'd rewrite it as:
The capitalist is not acting for the common good if he provides shoddy goods and services, pays low wages to his employees and maintains an unsafe work environment, and cheats on his taxes--or better yet, he manipulates his finances so that he doesn't have to pay the taxes that everyone else does.
I was about to disagree with you completely until I understood your sentence. But having re-read it a few times, I can now say I agree with you. At least for the most part.
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Poche,
Your point falls flat because a business that provided lousy service would go out of business because customers would start going somewhere else. Now, before someone says "Wal-Mart" let's remember that in the early 1980's K-Mart was king and Wal-Mart was only known in the rural farmlands, and mostly Arkansas. K-Mart now is a lousy store and has been for many years so they are really losing a lot of market share. However, in a country with strict government controls and heavy labor (union) workforce, a lousy company can stay in business until that country's economic system collapses.
Another mistake being made is idea that people are embracing Marxism because they gave capitalism a try and decided that they wanted something else. This is nonsense because Marxism appeals to people who are monstrously envious and desirous of hurting others, this is why Marxism (or just about any leftist ideology) always has death camps and brutality in it's wake. Meanwhile, virtually ALL of the material progress of the western world post-1600 is due to voluntary market exchanges of a free people doing business at their own pace and as they will.
The hatred of Our Lord at the core, the very heart and life blood of Marxism. Marxism is government control of all aspects of your life. This, in addition to being philosophical atheism, is practical atheism too because if all moral choices are removed from the individual, how can he ever really do anything good? He would merely be a cog in an atheist wheel and he would eventually pledge his own life blood for the good of this atheist wheel. Moral beings are only moral if they can choose to do good and refrain from doing evil. If all choices are made by a government agency, then the person is reduced to a tool.
In the history of Marxism, there is yet to be a great country. Great brutality, yes. I think more people dreamed of escaping the Soviet Union than those very few who thought it was a good thing going on.
Envy is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason. Envy inculcates hatred of others based on material goods. Envy refuses to acknowledge that the material goods enjoyed by others could very well be a blessing from God. It is not our call to decide who should have what yet that is precisely what Marxism proposes to do.
So, Pope Francis is constantly talking about how much he admires people who willingly embrace the ideas of Marxism.
I don't want this thread to become a political diatribe because there are no unfettered markets in the world and every single government out there has programs designed to assist the poor so the days of Dickens and his romanticism are over. And Pope Francis is scoring a zero in the originality department but I do think he may be the first pope to publicly admire Marxists. JP II blended a lot of Marxist thought in his economic views and it's likely that Paul VI was a closet socialist but those guys are dead and gone now.
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Poche,
Your point falls flat because a business that provided lousy service would go out of business because customers would start going somewhere else. Now, before someone says "Wal-Mart" let's remember that in the early 1980's K-Mart was king and Wal-Mart was only known in the rural farmlands, and mostly Arkansas. K-Mart now is a lousy store and has been for many years so they are really losing a lot of market share. However, in a country with strict government controls and heavy labor (union) workforce, a lousy company can stay in business until that country's economic system collapses.
Another mistake being made is idea that people are embracing Marxism because they gave capitalism a try and decided that they wanted something else. This is nonsense because Marxism appeals to people who are monstrously envious and desirous of hurting others, this is why Marxism (or just about any leftist ideology) always has death camps and brutality in it's wake. Meanwhile, virtually ALL of the material progress of the western world post-1600 is due to voluntary market exchanges of a free people doing business at their own pace and as they will.
The hatred of Our Lord at the core, the very heart and life blood of Marxism. Marxism is government control of all aspects of your life. This, in addition to being philosophical atheism, is practical atheism too because if all moral choices are removed from the individual, how can he ever really do anything good? He would merely be a cog in an atheist wheel and he would eventually pledge his own life blood for the good of this atheist wheel. Moral beings are only moral if they can choose to do good and refrain from doing evil. If all choices are made by a government agency, then the person is reduced to a tool.
In the history of Marxism, there is yet to be a great country. Great brutality, yes. I think more people dreamed of escaping the Soviet Union than those very few who thought it was a good thing going on.
Envy is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason. Envy inculcates hatred of others based on material goods. Envy refuses to acknowledge that the material goods enjoyed by others could very well be a blessing from God. It is not our call to decide who should have what yet that is precisely what Marxism proposes to do.
So, Pope Francis is constantly talking about how much he admires people who willingly embrace the ideas of Marxism.
I don't want this thread to become a political diatribe because there are no unfettered markets in the world and every single government out there has programs designed to assist the poor so the days of ####ens and his romanticism are over. And Pope Francis is scoring a zero in the originality department but I do think he may be the first pope to publicly admire Marxists. JP II blended a lot of Marxist thought in his economic views and it's likely that Paul VI was a closet socialist but those guys are dead and gone now.
When Pope Francis wrote his exhortation Evangelii Gaudium he condemned the selfish who only think of themselves. He mentioned this in passing. It apparently hit close to home because of all the complaining. I would recommend that the selfish and greedy do an examination of conscience and if the shoe of sin fits then maybe they should look for new shoes.
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"So, Pope Francis is constantly talking about how much he admires people who willingly embrace the ideas of Marxism"
Any mention of admiration that he has for people who are marxists is only to point out that some non Catholics have virtues that are not obvious to us. According to St John of the Cross God there is a point in which beginners on the way of perfection have the tendency to judge others. Theybase this judgement on the lack of virtue that they see in themselves while not being able to see the virtues in the other person. This judgement of others is a flaw accordint to St John of the Cross because many times the person or persons being judged has other virtues which they do not percieve but are lnown to God. This judgement of others is a danger in spiritual life because we are judging according to our own standards and not those of God, who is the ultimate judge of us all.
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
Repeatedly (so it isn't a 'fluke') Pope Francis will deny the most prominent teaching of St. Thomas (which arguably was the reason he was made Doctor of the Church), which says that the essence of eternal salvation is our faith in God, and that therefore, the essence of eternal damnation is our LACK of faith in God; but according to Francis, those with NO FAITH in God by definition (atheists are atheists specifically because they do not believe that God exists) would nonetheless be worthy of salvation.
Maybe we should come up with a new category: Anti-Doctor of the Church.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
Oh, good one. All the Marxists are not responsible. It's all the fault of Catholics that they're even Marxists in the first place.
This is so retarded.
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Repeatedly, Pope Francis will mention Marxism and add that he knows many Marxists who are fine people and many atheists who are fine people. He has even given the impression that he thinks atheists could go to Heaven.
Repeatedly (so it isn't a 'fluke') Pope Francis will deny the most prominent teaching of St. Thomas (which arguably was the reason he was made Doctor of the Church), which says that the essence of eternal salvation is our faith in God, and that therefore, the essence of eternal damnation is our LACK of faith in God; but according to Francis, those with NO FAITH in God by definition (atheists are atheists specifically because they do not believe that God exists) would nonetheless be worthy of salvation.
Maybe we should come up with a new category: Anti-Doctor of the Church.
If the capitalists who call themselves "Catholic" had acted more Catholic there would be a lot fewer Marxists in the world than there are now.
Oh, good one. All the Marxists are not responsible. It's all the fault of Catholics that they're even Marxists in the first place.
This is so retarded.
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It is not capitalism that will send you to Hell. It is selfishness. Evangelii Gaudium is not about economics it is about spreading the Gospel. Avarice is still one of the seven deadly sins.
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Poche,
Your point falls flat because a business that provided lousy service would go out of business because customers would start going somewhere else. Now, before someone says "Wal-Mart" let's remember that in the early 1980's K-Mart was king and Wal-Mart was only known in the rural farmlands, and mostly Arkansas. K-Mart now is a lousy store and has been for many years so they are really losing a lot of market share. However, in a country with strict government controls and heavy labor (union) workforce, a lousy company can stay in business until that country's economic system collapses.
Another mistake being made is idea that people are embracing Marxism because they gave capitalism a try and decided that they wanted something else. This is nonsense because Marxism appeals to people who are monstrously envious and desirous of hurting others, this is why Marxism (or just about any leftist ideology) always has death camps and brutality in it's wake. Meanwhile, virtually ALL of the material progress of the western world post-1600 is due to voluntary market exchanges of a free people doing business at their own pace and as they will.
The hatred of Our Lord at the core, the very heart and life blood of Marxism. Marxism is government control of all aspects of your life. This, in addition to being philosophical atheism, is practical atheism too because if all moral choices are removed from the individual, how can he ever really do anything good? He would merely be a cog in an atheist wheel and he would eventually pledge his own life blood for the good of this atheist wheel. Moral beings are only moral if they can choose to do good and refrain from doing evil. If all choices are made by a government agency, then the person is reduced to a tool.
In the history of Marxism, there is yet to be a great country. Great brutality, yes. I think more people dreamed of escaping the Soviet Union than those very few who thought it was a good thing going on.
Envy is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason. Envy inculcates hatred of others based on material goods. Envy refuses to acknowledge that the material goods enjoyed by others could very well be a blessing from God. It is not our call to decide who should have what yet that is precisely what Marxism proposes to do.
So, Pope Francis is constantly talking about how much he admires people who willingly embrace the ideas of Marxism.
I don't want this thread to become a political diatribe because there are no unfettered markets in the world and every single government out there has programs designed to assist the poor so the days of ####ens and his romanticism are over. And Pope Francis is scoring a zero in the originality department but I do think he may be the first pope to publicly admire Marxists. JP II blended a lot of Marxist thought in his economic views and it's likely that Paul VI was a closet socialist but those guys are dead and gone now.
When Pope Francis wrote his exhortation Evangelii Gaudium he condemned the selfish who only think of themselves. He mentioned this in passing. It apparently hit close to home because of all the complaining. I would recommend that the selfish and greedy do an examination of conscience and if the shoe of sin fits then maybe they should look for new shoes.
The selfish and the greedy do not read papal encyclicals. If anything, they scoff at them. The normal parade of scoffers and committed opponents of Catholicism are applauding Pope Francis and even NARAL sent him a thank you card. Do I need to tell you who NARAL is? I could, it need be.
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Poche,
I'm probably the second most 'liberal' person who posts here after you, and I'm sure most here would expect that I'd be likely to agree with you, but your posts in this tread are terrible.
When Pope Francis wrote his exhortation Evangelii Gaudium he condemned the selfish who only think of themselves. He mentioned this in passing. It apparently hit close to home because of all the complaining. I would recommend that the selfish and greedy do an examination of conscience and if the shoe of sin fits then maybe they should look for new shoes.
He mentioned specific economic theories by name. So, your analysis fails.
It is not capitalism that will send you to Hell. It is selfishness. Evangelii Gaudium is not about economics it is about spreading the Gospel. Avarice is still one of the seven deadly sins.
Please read #54. I don't care if you translate “por si’ mismo” into “inevitably” or "by itself", it is still about economics, economic systems, and government policies. So please quit lying about it.
When Pope Francis wrote his exhortation Evangelii Gaudium he condemned the selfish who only think of themselves. He mentioned this in passing. It apparently hit close to home because of all the complaining. I would recommend that the selfish and greedy do an examination of conscience and if the shoe of sin fits then maybe they should look for new shoes.
This is just reprehensible. Pope Francis strayed into economic theory and this has angered a lot of people, including myself, because it is not the Church's purview nor the Pope's expertise. To diagnose this as guilt is dishonest and cheap. You're as bad as those here who tell me that I need confession because I'm not a geocentrist.