Author Topic: Calling All Traditional Catholics!  (Read 3518 times)

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Offline MyrnaM

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Calling All Traditional Catholics!
« on: February 03, 2012, 12:25:53 PM »
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  • Without quoting Church teaching and quotes from Saints, I was hoping we who are known as sedevantist, although in truth are Roman Catholics, might tell the story from their own words of why and how they have reached this point.   I only suggest using your own words, because I thought it would help others here understand us better.
     
    To be known as sedevantist is not a position as TKGS, has pointed out, something we rejoice in.  In fact is quite difficult.

    For myself:  Vatican II started when I was in my early 20’s; having attended the poorest Catholic schools in Chicago all my life.  I had the elderly priests and nuns teach me, they were sent to schools like mine, where they could live out their life without causing too much harm for the newer, younger Modern nuns and priest who were already knocking at the doors of Catholic Schools even prior to Vatican II.

    I was one of the lucky ones, nuns who told me as a young child, that it was possible for even a pope to fall from grace, they explained to us, that popes although sin and some sin seriously can still be considered a True Pope, but they cannot change the teachings of Christ, because if they do, they no longer are Popes. I was taught that even the anti-popes throughout history, never changed the teachings of Christ.  Which is why today, I cannot consider these counciLIAR  popes anti-popes, in my mind they are not even that!  Although I realize it is a term used by many.  
     
    Getting back to my personal story,  having been taught from a child that yes, a pope can fall out of office, and having been taught this prior to Vatican II helped me face the awful truth.
       
    I was also taught to pray every day, to be united to the Church that Jesus Christ founded, to love the truth and know the truth, exactly in those words.  Words I added to my daily prayers.   That little phrase also added to the grace I needed when I became very confused with the changes.

    One nun in particular, before class would say daily, “good is good even if no one is doing it, and bad is bad even if everyone in the world is doing it”…this was imbedded in my mind, because she never missed a day, without telling this to us.
     
    I was married at the age of 21, and started to have my babies, one after another, I became very busy and although attended Mass every Sunday, I fell asleep to the changes that were creeping in.  Not till my children were old enough to attend the Catholic school in my neighborhood.  As my children grew grew, I was realizing they were not Catholic.  I started to ask them questions and wondered why they did not know simple basic Catholic truths, especially since they were in a Catholic school.  My eyes started to open and I began to SEE again.  What in the world was happening to the Catholic Church, I was thinking.    About that same time, I found my rosary and scapular all rolled up in a ball with some trinkets in a shoe box.  My thoughts were; Why am I not wearing this scapular, why am I not praying my daily rosary, and most importantly, why is it that I never hear from my priests about the importance of the rosary and scapular?   I started to read; to make a long story short, I was waking up.

    God left me in that dilemma for 5 more years, I continued going to Mass, my children we getting older and my non-Catholic husband was listening to my complaints every Sunday when I came home from Mass.  In fact he was the person who brought the newspaper ad to me, an ad he found in the newspaper about a lecture from a Catholic priest to explain what was happening in the Catholic Church.
     
    I felt this strong urge to attend this talk, and it was as if, I had all the pieces to the puzzle, and suddenly they all came together for me.

    BTW, my husband is now Catholic, by the grace of God.    



    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »
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  • So it sounds like if the SSPX had placed that newspaper ad and held that conference, you might not be a Sedevacantist today.

    Because everything you describe (waking up, finding out about the Crisis in the Church, resolving to attend the Tridentine Mass and adhere to Catholic customs once again) could be done just as easily in the SSPX.

    The fact that you decided to personally declare the See vacant seems to be an accident of fate -- a sedevacantist priest being in the right place at the right time.

    You're just proving the CathInfo/Matthew position to be correct -- namely, "salvation is to be found in many traditional groups, both in and out of the Sedevacantist world."

    But your story certainly does not show why the Sedevacantist position is better than the SSPX one. If that's what you were after, you still have some work to do.
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    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 02:00:27 PM »
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  • I seriously doubt it Matthew.   Pope, no pope goes a lot deeper than that.  
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #3 on: February 03, 2012, 02:03:45 PM »
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  • You are probably correct, and I thought about that more times than you realize.  Prior to my going to the lecture, I have never heard of SSPX or any traditional group anywhere. No Internet at that time.    I wondered many times why it was that God led me to CMRI, and I wondered too, why He had me confused while in the novus ordo for 5 more years. I had no place to go, I thought; so I just stayed within the novus ordo, going to what I believed was still the Mass,  like so many today.  I was one of them.

    Quote
    You're just proving the CathInfo/Matthew position to be correct -- namely, "salvation is to be found in many traditional groups, both in and out of the Sedevacantist world."


    I have never thought salvation could not be found within SSPX, in fact I have gone to SSPX several times within the last decade, here and there.  Do you think I would go, if I believed otherwise.

    I did not start this thread to convince anyone about sedevacantist one way or another, it is just that I sensed lately a strong hatred for us, so I was hoping by people telling their story in their own words, people might understand our journey better.

    Matthew my words here are the absolute words of my experience, nothing added.  In fact the only reason why God showed me CMRI over SSPX might be, He knew that I could accept the truth about the popes, and He also knows that some can not accept this truth, YET!  Of course this is just my guess, I have never had direct message from God explaining why He does things the way He does.  

    I love stories, and found that most of them SSPX  or otherwise always has something to do with the Blessed Mother, in my case it was getting back to my scapular and rosary.  



    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 02:04:38 PM »
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  • I think the number of CathInfo members who DO know me are in the minority.

    I bet most of you wouldn't guess that I grew up in an independent chapel. The SSPX didn't factor in at all, since they were hours away. My mother was very favorable toward their cause, which inclined me the same direction, but I never set foot in one of their buildings until I was 23.

    The independent chapel I attended was set up by Thomas A. Nelson (of TAN Books fame) under the aegis of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Knights of Malta. We had/have a pre-Vatican II, Polish Redemptorist priest there from 1979 - present.  You may have heard of him -- Fr. (now Bishop) Frank Slupski.

    (As an aside, my parents found this chapel right away, since they both worked at TAN Books. They worked -- AND MET EACH OTHER -- at TAN Books. So Tradition and I go way back... :laugh1:)

    Bishop Slupski has publicly denied being sedevacantist -- but he was plenty scathing in his sermons about John Paul II -- a fellow Pole. The chapel had all sorts of characters over the years: families, singles, old, young, the pious, the strange, etc.

    One thing our priest repeated over and over in his sermons, which has stuck with me over the years: "Be honest with yourself; be honest with God." reminding us that it's difficult and silly to fool ourselves, and impossible to fool God.

    Our chapel had *zero* dealings with the "Church outside our chapel" -- no public marches, prayers outside abortion clinics, dealings with Novus Ordo priests/churches, etc. just as would be expected in any sedevacantist chapel. We were 100% aloof.

    In fact, one family of 10 went Sedevacantist for a while, before they ended up at an SSPX chapel later on. If I were to guess, I'd say several parishioners there were personally sedevacantist.

    Though the chapel wasn't officially Sedevacantist, it was certainly very tolerant -- even favorable toward it. Perhaps it's typical of an independent chapel?

    So I'm not as much of a stranger to sedevacantism as some of you might think.
    At the very least, I'm not a typical SSPX attendee. 99% of the SSPX Catholics I've met went to the Novus Ordo up to point X, when they found Tradition. I've only met a dozen or so who attended an independent chapel before they found the SSPX.

    I'm just sharing this with you all in the interests of getting to know each other better.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #5 on: February 03, 2012, 02:24:19 PM »
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  • Thank you Matthew, this is what we need, a more personal touch of our journey toward our ultimate home, Heaven.  

    All this name calling, insults puts us, one another on the defensive, and we begin to hurt each other.  

    Maybe you should change the Title Topic Name to, Calling All Traditional Catholics

    I would love to hear all the stories of anyone who cares to share.  

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 02:51:48 PM »
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  • I expect the majority will shy clear.  Assuming your permission, Myrna, I am going to fine tune things a bit and ask myself why I am a sedevacantist.  

    Well it took me 10 years and the internet to find out what was wrong with the Church.  I went through phases---the pope doesn't know  what is happening, the pope knows but is surrounded by bad guys and can't do anything, any old excuse would do.  Then I got on the net and learned that the pope knew and approved what was going on.

    For me it was simple.  The Holy Ghost is head of the Church and He is indefectable.  So if there are changes (and there certainly were)  then it isn't the Holy Ghost.  That leaves only satan.  The clincher, though, was the loss of the Church's mission in false ecumenism.  Who but satan would ever lead us that way?  The vatican is the seat of satan;he governs there.  And those who sit in the vatican have no problem with that.  I do.  I want nothing to do with them.

    What would be really, reallly nice is if people would assume that we are all doing our best according to our consciences.  God didn't make us with a cookie cutter so it would be impossible for us all to be the same.  Just a little respect would go a long way.


    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 02:59:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    What would be really, reallly nice is if people would assume that we are all doing our best according to our consciences.  God didn't make us with a cookie cutter so it would be impossible for us all to be the same.  Just a little respect would go a long way.


    Well, I hate to say it, but I don't know where the heck this anti- sede vibe has come from! I also, am no sede, but something happened to make Matthew take a harder line on the sede-thesis recently. Its either that, or maybe he never liked it, but has been so busy with work, he's not had much time to control things the way he wants around here, until now. But I don't think its completely the latter, even before, he wasn't so outspoken on the issue.

    Maybe him and that annoying guy Augstine Baker are best buds...


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 03:16:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea

    Maybe him and that annoying guy Augstine Baker are best buds...


    I don't know Baker, but am wondering why you think he's annoying. I'm sure I've not read but a small fraction of his posts, but I've not seen anything I found annoying.

    PS. The rule that Sede discussion be kept in the Crisis subforum is not a new one even if it is difficult to abide by and equally difficult to enforce.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 03:18:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Trinity
    What would be really, reallly nice is if people would assume that we are all doing our best according to our consciences.  God didn't make us with a cookie cutter so it would be impossible for us all to be the same.  Just a little respect would go a long way.


    Well, I hate to say it, but I don't know where the heck this anti- sede vibe has come from! I also, am no sede, but something happened to make Matthew take a harder line on the sede-thesis recently. Its either that, or maybe he never liked it, but has been so busy with work, he's not had much time to control things the way he wants around here, until now. But I don't think its completely the latter, even before, he wasn't so outspoken on the issue.

    Maybe him and that annoying guy Augstine Baker are best buds...


    Nothing has changed -- I just have to periodically come in and knock some heads, in order to keep things in balance. I don't want this to become a Sede board, or a de-facto Sede board.

    From time to time I have to vocally remind people that this is an SSPX-friendly board. Or, a haven for SSPX attendees.

    I want to remind everyone that I'm not remaining silent because they have me in awe of their arguments -- no, I'm just very busy. So from time to time I have to come on here and remind the Sedes that I consider their position as imprudent as they consider mine unreasonable.

    In other words, I want to remind the Sedes that the SSPX position is NOT weak or on the defensive. Far from it -- from my position of strength I'm even able to go on the offensive whenever I feel like it.

    Trinity -- you're making this too personal. I am criticizing the Sede position NOT individual Sedes. You've been here a long time, you should know what an abstract discussion is by now. If I didn't think you Sedes were all doing your best, and were Catholic, you wouldn't be here. Not a single one of you.
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    Offline shin

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    « Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 03:20:20 PM »
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  • I've a soft spot in my heart for everyone who is going through these terrible times. It truly is hard on souls, and should bring a tear to every eye.

    I've heard more than one person speak about it, and what can I say?

    May God help us all, and keep us close, guide us to all truth, keep us from all error, and console our poor hearts.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus keep us! Let us trust in the Lord in all difficulties, all is within His Providence.


    Matthew, not to get off topic, are you still in touch with Thomas Nelson? How is he doing?
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 03:46:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: shin

    Matthew, not to get off topic, are you still in touch with Thomas Nelson? How is he doing?


    Well, he's trying to make a living outside the Catholic book publishing business where he made 100% of his living since 1967.  That's got to be hard!

    But as far as I know he's doing OK. He's surviving, and he's still in good health.

    If he was having any major problems, I'd probably find out about it -- he's a relative, after all. (He's my dad's uncle.) In fact, my folks still attend Mass with him every Sunday.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 04:07:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Thank you Matthew, this is what we need, a more personal touch of our journey toward our ultimate home, Heaven.  

    All this name calling, insults puts us, one another on the defensive, and we begin to hurt each other.  

    Maybe you should change the Title Topic Name to, Calling All Traditional Catholics

    I would love to hear all the stories of anyone who cares to share.  


    That sounds like a great idea -- I can change the title.
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    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 04:10:31 PM »
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  • And you, Matthew, can relax entirely.  We all KNOW this is an SSPX board and no one dare diss them even if they want to.  You also know that long before those rules I did not diss the SSPX.  I'm sorry you sometimes feel the need to put us down.  It has not made for good relations.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 04:12:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Well, I hate to say it, but I don't know where the heck this anti- sede vibe has come from! I also, am no sede, but something happened to make Matthew take a harder line on the sede-thesis recently.


    Probably because of the dogmatic sedes who have posted here in the past (i.e David Landry, David Hobson, Richard Ibranyi, Frank Pagnanelli and so forth) who didn't show any respect towards the fact that Matthew lets them post on his forum; Instead they chose to condemn him for not being sede.

    Of course, I agree with you that non-sede Trads should be sympathetic towards sedes and their position, I'm just saying. Afterall, if I were in Matthew's position and I had that many sedes act that way towards me, I'd probably be turned off by the position myself. Fortunetly, people here such as Myrna, Raoul, PartyIsOver, TKGS, Hobbledehoy, Trinity, etc. have shown me what the majority of sedes are like: kind people who really know their Faith.

     

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