Where is the Papal docuмent from the old traditionalist days which gives each member of the Faithful the authority to pass judgment on the Magisterium?

We have NO AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING BUT ASSENT TO THE MAGISTERIUM!  Don't you get it?

You are not consenting to the Magisterium.

You are declaring the Magisterium to be a bunch of heretics.

Where is the Papal docuмent which informs you of the conditions to be on the alert for so that you might know where and when the Magisterium falls into heresy?

Are you for real?  You're only believing what you want to believe, obviously.

Quote from: pax

Where is the Papal docuмent which informs you of the conditions to be on the alert for so that you might know where and when the Magisterium falls into heresy?

The Magisterium DOES NOT fall into heresy.  Anything that posits a recession from the Magisterium IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE MAGISTERIUM and is ALIEN TO THE CHURCH.

Quote from: Pope Leo XIII, in [i

Satis Cognitum[/i]]The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Epiphanius, Augustine, Theodoret, drew up a long list of the heresies of their times. St. Augustine notes that other heresies may spring up, to a single one of which, should any one give his assent, he is by the very fact cut off from Catholic unity. "No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic" (S. Augustinus, De Haeresibus, n. 88).

By the way, is it heresy to say that Muslims and Christians DO NOT have the same god?

So, who gave you the authority to declare when someone is a heretic?

Where is the Papal docuмent which says: "The Faithful are to declare as heretics whoever they deem them to be heretics" or a reasonable facsimile thereof?

Your "church" teaches that Muslims and Christians worship the same god.

Where?

Produce the docuмent which says that.

Put up or shut up.

You using the Magisterial docuмents to make your case against the Magisterium is like a Protestant using the Bible to make his case against the Church.

There is no difference in what you are doing.

Then there is no problem with the new mass, the new sacraments, and the new catechism being taught in all the conciliar schools.

Why would you come here to discuss things that you don't believe even exist?

Quote from: The True and Faithful Catholic

I understand that docuмent.

I also understand that the Church is hierarchial, and only a superior or an equal can pass judgment on another member of the Church. A priest cannot pass judgment on a Bishop. And the laity certainly cannot pass judgment on the Pope.

Right.  On another MEMBER OF THE CHURCH.

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, [i

ex cathedra[/i]]It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jєωs or heretics and schismatics...

Outside the Church?  NOT a member.

Quote from: Pope Paul IV, cuм Ex

6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy...

7. Finally, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, define and decree]: that ANY AND ALL PERSONS who would have been subject to those thus promoted or elevated if they had not previously deviated from the Faith, become heretics, incurred schism or provoked or committed any or all of these, be they members of anysoever of the following categories:

      (i) the clergy, secular and religious;

      (ii) the laity;

      (iii) the Cardinals, even those who shall have taken part in the election of this very Pontiff previously deviating from the Faith or heretical or schismatical, or shall otherwise have consented and vouchsafed obedience to him and shall have venerated him;

      (iv) Castellans, Prefects, Captains and Officials, even of Our Beloved City and of the entire Ecclesiastical State, even if they shall be obliged and beholden to those thus promoted or elevated by homage, oath or security;

shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs (the same subject persons, nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Roman Pontiff canonically entering).

Quote from: The True and Faithful Catholic

I understand that docuмent.

Evidently NOT.

The pope has given PERMISSION to ANY AND ALL PERSONS to withdraw obedience from public heretics.  Thanks for coming out.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, or what the Pope wrote there.

The Pope has not given permission for you, a member of the laity, to determine and pronounce who is and is not a heretic. Nor did he give permission to members of the clergy, or the laity, to schism willy-nilly and set up shop whenever they please.

If I understand what Pope Paul IV wrote there to mean what you say it means, then he just gave Luther and Calvin and Zwingli the green light.

After all, their argument was exactly the same as your own. They, too, made the case that the Pope was a heretic.

But that is not what he said.

He said that you, as a member of the laity, wait until you are told by the Teaching Authority of Holy Mother Church, who is a heretic, and then you shun him.

You do not have the authority to pronounce the word "heretic" against any Pope living or dead.

You are nothing more than a self-righteous blathering Protestant.

Sticks and stones may break my bones...

Quote from: pax

He said that you, as a member of the laity, wait until you are told by the Teaching Authority of Holy Mother Church, who is a heretic, and then you shun him.

Oh yeah?

Quote from: Pope Paul IV

(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;

Wow.  That refutes you quite handily, and it has already appeared in this thread.  Obviously if it is unanimously assented to by the Cardinals, they are not going to declare against him, but we still may withdraw obedience.

Quote

(ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;

So it cannot ever become valid, even if a long, long time goes by without anyone juridically declaring against him.  But we may still withdraw obedience (which could not be done if such a one were the pope).

Quote

(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

How blind do you have to be "pax"?

Nowhere in that docuмent is authority given to the laity, or to any other inferiors, to pass judgment on a superior.