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Author Topic: Bp. Williamson sermon: Eucharistic Miracles in the New Mass. Do you agree?  (Read 588 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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It's well known that there was a great Eucharistic Miracle in the Catholic Church (among several thousands throughout Church history, see http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/blessed-eucharist1.htm) in Lanciano several centuries ago, in response to a doubting monk's doubts about the Real Presence: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

"Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size."

The Church has always regarded miracles such as that of Lanciano as living refutations of Protestantism, proofs of the Real Presence against doubters, of the supernatural against agnostics and atheists, and of Catholic Truth against all false religions generally. Fr. Mueller cites very many, including some that took place in the reign of Pope St. Gregory the Great, after which a doubting woman converted.

More recently, there have been very similar well documented miracles even today, as Bishop Williamson explains, in both the traditional Mass, and even in the new mass. H.E. says this confirms what +ABL had said, that the New mass can be valid. Do you agree?

Please see the sermon for more details: And what about new rite of ordination? Without a valid Priest, a valid Mass is impossible. The SSPX has independent studies documenting both the facts that, (1) the new rites are marginally valid, and also (2) mere validity is not enough. Any reasonable theological study will show the same. Validity is one thing, and the Glory given to God, and the Grace available for us, is another. By the Tridentine Mass, a Priest gives the greatest possible Glory to God, and obtains from Heaven the maximum possible graces for us. Therefore, every Priest should make the right and courageous decision to offer the Traditional Mass, while not needlessly exaggerating and saying there are no graces in the New Mass. When there is a valid Consecration, within the Catholic Church, there will be at least some graces, even if those graces are "strangled" there as Bp. Williamson says. Your thoughts on this sermon by Bp. Williamson? Do you agree with the main principle?
Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

Online Ladislaus

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  • If +Williamson has a weakness, it's that he's had a tendency to be rather gullible in lending credence to alleged miracles and apparitions ... from Garabandal (which is clearly diabolical), to Valtorta (which, according to the Vatican, was a badly-fictionalized account of Christ's life), to Dawn Marie, to alleged Eucharistic miracles in the Novus Ordo ... which can easily be faked by the devil and required authentication from the Church (and I don't mean the Novus Ordo establishment).


    Offline XavierSem

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  • From the OP book, written in the 19th century, "This is indeed a great mystery, and the more to confirm your faith in it, I will give you some proofs for it from Scripture and Tradition. The first proof is taken from the sixth chapter of the gospel of St. John. Our Divine Saviour knew that if He were to teach the Jews and His disciples such a new and wonderful doctrine without having first prepared them for it, there would be scarcely one who would believe Him. When God intends to do something very extraordinary, He generally prepares men for it by revealing to them beforehand what He is about to do. Thus we know that when He intended to destroy the world by the deluge, He made it known through Noah a hundred years before this dreadful event took place. Again, when the Son of God had become man and was about to make Himself known as the Redeemer of the world, He sent St. John the Baptist to prepare the people for His coming. Finally, when He intended to destroy Jerusalem, He foretold it by the prophets; and, Jesus Christ has also described the signs by which men may know when the End of the World is at hand. God acts thus with men because He does not wish to overwhelm them by His strange and wonderful dealings. Hence, when our Divine Saviour was about to tell the people that He intended to give them His Flesh and Blood as food for their souls, He prepared them for this mysterious doctrine by working a very astounding miracle ... 

    ...In the village of Les Ulmes de St. Florent, in the diocese of Angers, the following miracle occurred on the second of June, 1666, the Saturday within the octave of the feast of Corpus Christi. The people were assembled in the church for Benediction, and when the priest had intoned the hymn, "Verbum Caro, panem verum," there appeared in place of the Host the distinct figure of a man. He was clothed in white, and His hands were crossed on His breast; His hair fell upon His shoulders, and His countenance was resplendent with majesty. The curate then invited all his parishioners to come and witness the miracle: "If there be any infidel here," said he, "let him now draw near." Everyone approached and gazed upon this beautiful vision for about a quarter of an hour, after which the Host resumed its former shape. The Bishop of Angers, Mgr. Henry Arnaud, after having examined the testimony in favor of this miracle, caused it to be proclaimed throughout the whole of France. The Blessed Nicholas Fattori, a Franciscan friar, remarkable for his piety and purity of heart, often saw Jesus Christ in the Consecrated Host in the form of an infant. On touching the Blessed Sacrament, he seemed to feel, not the mere Eucharistic species, but the very Flesh of Jesus Christ. On this account, he used to present his fingers to those who wished to kiss his hand, saying: "Kiss these fingers with great respect, for they are sanctified by real contact with Jesus Christ Our Lord and Sovereign Good." It is also related that, when this holy man was in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, he used to rejoice as a child does in the presence of its mother. 

    Our Lord in His great mercy has even gone so far as to manifest Himself to His enemies, to the unbelievers. 

    In the life of St. Gregory the Great, written by Paul the deacon, it is related that a noble matron of Rome, who was accustomed to prepare the hosts for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, went one Sunday to receive Holy Communion from the Holy Pontiff. When he gave her the Blessed Eucharist, saying, "May the body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve thy soul unto life everlasting," she laughed outright. Seeing this, the Sovereign Pontiff did not give her the Blessed Sacrament, but replaced it on the altar, and when the holy mysteries were ended, he asked the lady why she laughed when about to receive the Body of the Lord. "Why," said she, "I laughed because I saw that what you said was the Body of the Lord was one of those very wafers which I had made with my own hands." Upon this the Pope ordered all present to pray that God, in confirmation of the truth, would cause all to see with the eyes of the body what the unbelief of this woman had prevented her from seeing with the eyes of the soul. Accordingly, when the holy Pontiff and all present had prayed for a while, the corporal was removed, and in sight of the multitude who pressed round to witness the miracle, the Holy Host was visibly changed into flesh. Then, turning to the woman, the Pope said: Learn now to believe the words of the Eternal Truth Who declares: "The bread which I give is My Flesh, and My Blood is drink indeed." And having besought God once more to change the Host into its original form, he gave her the Holy Communion. This woman never again doubted of the Real Presence and soon made great progress in virtue."

    More recently, "
    1) Argentina 1992, 1994, 1996

    Where: The parish of Saint Mary in Buenos Aires
    What happened: While both other miracles are definitely worth finding out about, the most interesting and comprehensive study was done with the 1996 Eucharist. It began bleeding when consecrated and part of it became human tissue. After several intense studies, it was found that the tissue was part of a heart, a muscle of the myocardium, the left ventricle, the muscle that gives life to the whole heart and body.
    The tissue revealed further that it belonged to a person who had gone through intense pain, experiencing extended periods of time where he could barely breathe, had immense strain put on the heart (both common feature of crucifixion) and had been stabbed in the left side. What was most insane was that despite the fact this should have killed the person, the tissue showed signs of being ‘alive’.
    This was evidenced by intact white blood cells being found in the tissue. This showed the heart sample was pulsating as elsewise the white blood cells would have disintegrated roughly 15 minutes outside of a living body.
    Interesting fact: The Archbishop who commissioned the research was none other than the now Pope Francis!

    https://dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Online Ladislaus

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  • Too bad you're in schism from the "now Pope Francis".

    XaiverSem, it has become clear that you are not a Traditional Catholic.  You are only one step short of poche in attempting to legitimate the Novus Ordo hijacking of the Catholic Church.

    If this is the quality of the new SSPX seminarian, then the SSPX is surely finished already.

    Offline XavierSem

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  • So, Bp. Williamson is not Traditional Catholic? You have been living in the mortal sin and public schism of Sedevacantism for some 2 to 3 decades, while having the opportunity to know better, and you'll be dead to Grace, and your soul will be in grave danger of eternal loss, as long as you continue like that, without repenting and confessing that sin of Svism. The SSPX will continue its mission. Both Bp. Fellay and Bp. Williamson, and others like Fr. Gleize and Fr. Laisney, have made some distinctions some of you hotheaded rigorists, like new Tertullian rigorists who want to live and die outside Catholic Communion, are either unable or unwilling to see, or both.

    "For example, in the examination that took place on January 11-12, 1979, in response to the questions posed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Lefebvre spoke about the new Mass as follows: “This rite in itself does not profess the Catholic faith as clearly as the old Ordo missae and consequently it may promote heresy....What is astonishing is that an Ordo missaethat smacks of Protestantism and therefore favens haeresim [is promoting heresy] could be promulgated by the Roman Curia.”1 You will note that all his words are carefully weighed: “not...as clearly as”; “may promote”; “smacks of Protestantism”; “favens, promoting.” These are the words of a wise man, the words of a man who pays attention to what he says. Archbishop Lefebvre also said: “I never denied that these Masses said faithfully according to the Novus Ordo were valid; nor did I ever say that they were heretical or blasphemous.”2 Careful, therefore! Let us be firm, but let us not be simplistic." http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=3501

    I agree entirely with Bp. Fellay and Bp. Williamson, with Fr. Gleize and Fr. Laisney. Too bad if you don't want to make these distinctions.

    And you are entirely in disagreement with Pope Francis about the canonical status of the Society, as proven umpteen times to you.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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  • 1.  The conciliar church has motivation for introducing new "miracles"...$ from pilgrimages and books.
    2.  The conciliar church did not adequately, independently, nor publically, investigate this event.
    3.  The conciliar church accepted this miracle as real, impulsively, without the long-standing Church attitude of only accepting miracles after science has failed to provide an explanation.

    Online Ladislaus

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  • So, Bp. Williamson is not Traditional Catholic?

    Use your brain, man, if you have one.  I say you're not a Traditional Catholics for others reasons, and not simply because you happen to believe in the Novus Ordo so-called Eucharistic Miracles.

    Online Ladislaus

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  • You have been living in the mortal sin and public schism of Sedevacantism for some 2 to 3 decades, while having the opportunity to know better, and you'll be dead to Grace, and your soul will be in grave danger of eternal loss, as long as you continue like that, without repenting and confessing that sin of Svism.

    You are the one who's in formal schism and dead to grace.  I refuse submission to the Novus Ordo hierarchy because I have positive doubts about their legitimacy.  Canon Lawyers write that it's not schismatic to refuse submission based on widespread positive doubts about legitimacy.  PS, I am not a sedevacantist but what I refer to as a sede-doubtist, but you don't grasp distinctions very well.  You on the other hand persist in remaining in schism from the Novus Ordo hierarchy even though you hold them to be undoubtedly legitimate.  You can articulate no reasons of conscience which force you to remain separated from submission to them and why the FSSP is not a viable alternative for you.  In fact, pretty much every post if yours is made in defense of and in order to legitimize the Novus Ordo establishment.



    Online Ladislaus

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  • 1.  The conciliar church has motivation for introducing new "miracles"...$ from pilgrimages and books.
    2.  The conciliar church did not adequately, independently, nor publically, investigate this event.
    3.  The conciliar church accepted this miracle as real, impulsively, without the long-standing Church attitude of only accepting miracles after science has failed to provide an explanation.

    And from my perspective, it's doubtful whether they have the authority to pronounce on these matters (or any authority whatsoever).

    Offline Markus

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  • This will be an interesting sermon. I don't have a firm position regarding Eucharistic miracles in the Novus Ordo. I have plenty of doubts.

    Offline B USC90

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  • Satan can perform the miracles to decieve people into thinking the Novus Ordo isn't harmful and is a oasis of graces. It's a ruse.
    "There is no Catholic God." ~ Ladislaus (CathInfo member agreeing multiple times with Francis the Destroyer)


    Offline Stubborn

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  • Rest assured that Eucharistic miracles within the conciliar church are as authentic as miracles in any other non-Catholic church. The only purpose they might serve is to awaken the lethargic, to get them to run from new church, into the True Church.  
    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline forlorn

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  • If the New Rite is valid, you should be attending it rather than the unapproved masses said by priests with no ministry in a society with no canonical status. To do the latter while recognising the former is schism.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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  • If the New Rite is valid, you should be attending it rather than the unapproved masses said by priests with no ministry in a society with no canonical status. To do the latter while recognising the former is schism.
    Unfortunately, the operative word here is IF
    Humble thy spirit very much: for the vengeance on the flesh of the ungodly is fire and worms. - Ecclesiasticus 7:18

    Offline forlorn

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  • Unfortunately, the operative word here is IF
    It was addressed to Xavier, who accepts it as valid. 

     

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