Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Disputaciones on October 29, 2012, 04:26:09 AM
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Someone here in an old thread said Bishop Neal Webster was a reject whom no one wanted to ordain for almost 30 years or something.
Can someone shed more info on this and on Bp Webster as well?
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Bishop WEbster used to fly in from tennesse to our former chapel to help out until there was another full time pastor. He even reconfirmed me.
I thought he was a good priest because he always told us that we should pray the Rosary the whole rosary a day. His sermons were very educational and spirtual. He was strict but kind.
Bishop Webster is not with SSPX ..he is a independent Bishop.
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Yeah, I know who he is and I've even spoken to him, but I was asking about something someone said about him being a reject.
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Bishop Webster is an old old friend of mine from over 20 years ago. He was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. He remains friends in contact w/ many folks here at st. V's tho I'v not had any contact since he left the area to become a priest and subsequently a bishop. He's a holy man, used to spread the rosary door to door in the "hoods" here in the kc metro every day and was very active in pro-life. He's a sedevacantist, tho not the most hardcore I've ever met. He did make the clearest answer to my difficulties with that issue as follows " why would you want to be in communion w/ heretics" I still can offer no real answer to that, thus I cannot deny the sede position ( not ready to commit yet either) my real issue w/ him was his rigid Feeneyism and his adhereance to naturopathic medicine/quackery. Great guy, at one time a close personal friend, I wish him much well. I thought about havng him ordaining me a priest so I could say mass for my family at home ( no impediment for married men to be priests, onl vise versa) Then I could sleep in on sundays and pray for the dismal kansas city griefs.
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Yes, Bishop Webster is down to earth. Also, I'm not sure if totally Feenyite.. he is willing to learn and discuss with other clergy. I think he is building a new chapel in Tennessee. I think he is originally from the North East..
May God Bless and guide Bishop Webster. I know he used to talk to my Bishop who wasn't a sedevacantist.
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and Bishop Webster would not ordain a married man. He is not liberal. He is a traditional Catholic. Very strict and kind.
Bishop WEbster also encouraged us to make time to pray the whole Rosary.
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Bishop Webster is an old old friend of mine from over 20 years ago. He was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. He remains friends in contact w/ many folks here at st. V's tho I'v not had any contact since he left the area to become a priest and subsequently a bishop.
Who ordained him and consecrated him a Bishop? I was at his chapel in Knoxville several years ago but did not have the opportunity to find our much about him.
Marsha
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Bishop Webster is an old old friend of mine from over 20 years ago. He was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. He remains friends in contact w/ many folks here at st. V's tho I'v not had any contact since he left the area to become a priest and subsequently a bishop.
Who ordained him and consecrated him a Bishop? I was at his chapel in Knoxville several years ago but did not have the opportunity to find our much about him.
Marsha
I heard that he is not validly ordained or consecrated. He is a Feeneyite.
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Bishop Webster is an old old friend of mine from over 20 years ago. He was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. He remains friends in contact w/ many folks here at st. V's tho I'v not had any contact since he left the area to become a priest and subsequently a bishop.
Who ordained him and consecrated him a Bishop? I was at his chapel in Knoxville several years ago but did not have the opportunity to find our much about him.
Marsha
I think his name was hennebarry or Artebarry? Some thuc line guy in florida who recently died. I was joking about the ordination thing. Webster is a hardcore feeney fan.
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and Bishop Webster would not ordain a married man. He is not liberal. He is a traditional Catholic. Very strict and kind.
Bishop WEbster also encouraged us to make time to pray the whole Rosary.
I was joking, tho marriage is NOT an impediment to ordination strictly speaking, rather it is a discipline ( a good one in my limited knowledge and opinion). Besides, the Griefs blew it up to win the Superbowl this year so no longer an issue.
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Traditionally, priests were married to women.
(It was stopped because of loss of real estate
to women and families which doesn’t make sense because Church laws could have prevented it from happening.
Look at the amount of Church real estate lost because of communist sodomy within priesthood. One too many perverts with Vatican II and just as many in traditional camps.
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Who ordained him and consecrated him a Bishop? I was at his chapel in Knoxville several years ago but did not have the opportunity to find our much about him.
Marsha
I think his name was hennebarry or Artebarry? Some thuc line guy in florida who recently died. I was joking about the ordination thing. Webster is a hardcore feeney fan.
This would have been Bishop Timothy Henneberry. Heard of him, never met him.
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This would have been Bishop Timothy Henneberry. Heard of him, never met him.
Here is the lineage from Archbishop Thuc to Bp. Henneberry.
[size=+1]03/18/1976[/size] [size=+1]Raymond Maurice (http://netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch07167)[/size][size=+1]xxxx[/size] (http://netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch07167)[size=+1] Terrasson[/size][/url] (b. in 1932; still living).
[/b]
Ordained a priest on 12/23/1974 at Toulouse, France, by Jean Laborie, bishop of the Église Latine de Toulouse.
Consecrated a bishop on 03/18/1976 at Sevilla, Spain, b by Clemente Dominguez Gómez, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church, assisted by Manuel
Alonso Corral, a bishop of xxxx, and by Camilo Estevez Puga, a bishop of xxxx. A FRENCHMAN
He is the head of The Priory of St. John the Evangelist in Coussac-Benneval, near Limoges, France.
[size=+1]08/28/1994 [/size][size=+1]Timothy Hennebery[/size][size=+1] [/size](b. in 19xx; still living).
Ordained a priest on 10/17/1990 at xxxx, by Moisés Carmona-Rivera, a bishop of the xxxxx Church.
Consecrated a bishop on 08/28/1994 at Miami, Florida, by Raymond Maurice Terrasson, a bishop of the xxxxx Church.[/b]
http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html (http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html)
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I was advised that Bishop Slupski ordained Bishop Webster.
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Who ordained him and consecrated him a Bishop? I was at his chapel in Knoxville several years ago but did not have the opportunity to find our much about him.
Marsha
Bishop Neal Webster was ordained on October 7, 2000 in Miami Florida by the Bishop Timothy Hennenbery, OSA. Then on November 15, 2007 in Knoxville Tennessee, he was consecrated by Bishop Francis Slupski, CSsR. The successions are as follows:
Priesthood: Thuc-Clemente-Terrasson-Hennenbery-Webster
Episcopate: Thuc-des Lauriers-McKenna-Slupski-Webster.
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I'm not one who holds the Thuc line to be doubtful, but Bishop Webster's line has some issues due to one Jean Laborie.
Bishop Webster was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Slupski (I don't believe there are any doubts about his line).
But he had been ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Timothy Henneberry.
Henneberry, in turn, was consecrated a bishop by a Bishop Terrasson.
Terrasson had been consecrated by Clemente Dominguez Gomez (of Palmar fame). Apart from the fact that Gomez had no training and could easily have botched the Rite of Episcopal Consecration, this was likely valid ...
except, and here's the problem
Terrasson had been ordained a priest by in 1974 by Jean Laborie.
But in 1977 Bishop Thuc CONDITIONALLY consecrated Laborie. There's no record of who ordained Laborie, but his pre-1977 consecrationS (plural) went as follows ...
[Laborie] had already been consecrated a bishop on 10/02/1966 at xxxxx by Jean Pierre Danyel, a bishop of the Sainte Église Celtique. Later he was consecrated sub conditione a bishop on 08/20/1968 at xxxxx by Louis Jean Stanislaus Canivet, a bishop known as "Patriarch Aloysius Basilius III" of the Patriarchate Orthodoxe de l'Europe Latine.
So his status in 1974 when he ordained Terrasson to the priesthood was one of clear positive doubt. So much so, that in 1977, Bishop Thuc consecrated Laborie conditionally.
NOW ... there's an allegation that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained at some point before his consecration by Clemente. But I've seen no proof for this whatsover.
So unless there's docuмentation/proof that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained before his consecration, the whole line is in doubt.
Consequently, we have to hold there to be positive doubt regarding the validity of Bishop Pfeiffer.
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I'm not one who holds the Thuc line to be doubtful, but Bishop Webster's line has some issues due to one Jean Laborie.
Bishop Webster was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Slupski (I don't believe there are any doubts about his line).
But he had been ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Timothy Henneberry.
Henneberry, in turn, was consecrated a bishop by a Bishop Terrasson.
Terrasson had been consecrated by Clemente Dominguez Gomez (of Palmar fame). Apart from the fact that Gomez had no training and could easily have botched the Rite of Episcopal Consecration, this was likely valid ...
except, and here's the problem
Terrasson had been ordained a priest by in 1974 by Jean Laborie.
But in 1977 Bishop Thuc CONDITIONALLY consecrated Laborie. There's no record of who ordained Laborie, but his pre-1977 consecrationS (plural) went as follows ...
[Laborie] had already been consecrated a bishop on 10/02/1966 at xxxxx by Jean Pierre Danyel, a bishop of the Sainte Église Celtique. Later he was consecrated sub conditione a bishop on 08/20/1968 at xxxxx by Louis Jean Stanislaus Canivet, a bishop known as "Patriarch Aloysius Basilius III" of the Patriarchate Orthodoxe de l'Europe Latine.
So his status in 1974 when he ordained Terrasson to the priesthood was one of clear positive doubt. So much so, that in 1977, Bishop Thuc consecrated Laborie conditionally.
NOW ... there's an allegation that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained at some point before his consecration by Clemente. But I've seen no proof for this whatsover.
So unless there's docuмentation/proof that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained before his consecration, the whole line is in doubt.
Consequently, we have to hold there to be positive doubt regarding the validity of Bishop Pfeiffer.
It's all pretty squishy.(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CarelessPoorHorsefly-small.gif) (https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CarelessPoorHorsefly-small.gif)
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Bishop Webster is an old old friend of mine from over 20 years ago. He was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. He remains friends in contact w/ many folks here at st. V's tho I'v not had any contact since he left the area to become a priest and subsequently a bishop. He's a holy man, used to spread the rosary door to door in the "hoods" here in the kc metro every day and was very active in pro-life. He's a sedevacantist, tho not the most hardcore I've ever met. He did make the clearest answer to my difficulties with that issue as follows " why would you want to be in communion w/ heretics" I still can offer no real answer to that, thus I cannot deny the sede position ( not ready to commit yet either) my real issue w/ him was his rigid Feeneyism and his adhereance to naturopathic medicine/quackery. Great guy, at one time a close personal friend, I wish him much well. I thought about havng him ordaining me a priest so I could say mass for my family at home ( no impediment for married men to be priests, onl vise versa) Then I could sleep in on sundays and pray for the dismal kansas city griefs.
That is cool to spread the Rosary and gospel to everyone. It might be good to have more priests during these times.
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Is he still in Tennessee?
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Is he still in Tennessee?
Yes he is. You can call him at (865) 693-1889.
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Cool.
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and Bishop Webster would not ordain a married man. He is not liberal. He is a traditional Catholic. Very strict and kind.
Bishop WEbster also encouraged us to make time to pray the whole Rosary.
Since you seem to have a relationship with him, will you please call him and ask if he performed the conditional consecration on fr. Pfeiffer and if it was videotaped?
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Perhaps also inform him that fr. Pfeiffer has thrown him under the bus, just two days after being consecrated by him.
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Yes, Bishop Webster is down to earth. Also, I'm not sure if totally Feenyite.. he is willing to learn and discuss with other clergy. I think he is building a new chapel in Tennessee. I think he is originally from the North East..
May God Bless and guide Bishop Webster. I know he used to talk to my Bishop who wasn't a sedevacantist.
One suggestion:
The term "Feeneyite" shouldn't be used in a derogatory manner.
What does it imply? "One Baptism and No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church" How beautiful!
And if Catholics had listened to and heeded Father Feeney's warnings on Jєωιѕн infiltration inside the Catholic Church, we'd be in a much better position to defend Catholic tradition than we are today.
An example of Father's inspired brilliance on this subject is demonstrated in this article from his newsletter, "The Point"
Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in the Life and Times of Pope Pius IX (https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ-in-the-life-and-times-of-pope-pius-ix/)
Few Catholics have been able to make the connection of how world jewery uses Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ to their anti-Christian ends.
So when traditional bishops, priests and laymen stand up and pontificate against "Feeneyism" (i.e., staunch Catholicism), they do so at their own spiritual peril.
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One suggestion:
The term "Feeneyite" shouldn't be used in a derogatory manner.
What does it imply? "One Baptism and No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church" How beautiful!
And if Catholics had listened to and heeded Father Feeney's warnings on Jєωιѕн infiltration inside the Catholic Church, we'd be in a much better position to defend Catholic tradition than we are today.
An example of Father's inspired brilliance on this subject is demonstrated in this article from his newsletter, "The Point"
Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in the Life and Times of Pope Pius IX (https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ-in-the-life-and-times-of-pope-pius-ix/)
Few Catholics have been able to make the connection of how world jewery uses Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ to their anti-Christian ends.
So when traditional bishops, priests and laymen stand up and pontificate against "Feeneyism" (i.e., staunch Catholicism), they do so at their own spiritual peril.
Thank you for this post Incredulous.
I rarely see the term 'Feeneyite' NOT used in a derogatory manner. It is a shocking way to talk about a good Catholic priest who, as you say, taught that there is 'One Baptism and No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church". I was always taught that one must be baptised in the one, true, holy Catholic and apostolic Church in order to be saved. That has not changed according to all the research done on this forum by Pax Vobis, Stubborn, Ladislaus etc. God bless them.
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Bishop Webster ... was ordained a priest some 12 years ago and a bishop subsequently. He was a parishioner at St. Vincents in KC when I started attending there in 1991. ... He's a sedevacantist, tho not the most hardcore I've ever met. ... his rigid Feeneyism...
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What seminary did Neal Webster attend? Did he have any training in Latin, or any other subjects that priests learn for that matter? How much seminary formation did he have?
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I'm not one who holds the Thuc line to be doubtful, but Bishop Webster's line has some issues due to one Jean Laborie.
Bishop Webster was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Slupski (I don't believe there are any doubts about his line).
But he had been ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Timothy Henneberry.
Henneberry, in turn, was consecrated a bishop by a Bishop Terrasson.
Terrasson had been consecrated by Clemente Dominguez Gomez (of Palmar fame). Apart from the fact that Gomez had no training and could easily have botched the Rite of Episcopal Consecration, this was likely valid ...
except, and here's the problem
Terrasson had been ordained a priest by in 1974 by Jean Laborie.
But in 1977 Bishop Thuc CONDITIONALLY consecrated Laborie. There's no record of who ordained Laborie, but his pre-1977 consecrationS (plural) went as follows ...
[Laborie] had already been consecrated a bishop on 10/02/1966 at xxxxx by Jean Pierre Danyel, a bishop of the Sainte Église Celtique. Later he was consecrated sub conditione a bishop on 08/20/1968 at xxxxx by Louis Jean Stanislaus Canivet, a bishop known as "Patriarch Aloysius Basilius III" of the Patriarchate Orthodoxe de l'Europe Latine.
So his status in 1974 when he ordained Terrasson to the priesthood was one of clear positive doubt. So much so, that in 1977, Bishop Thuc consecrated Laborie conditionally.
NOW ... there's an allegation that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained at some point before his consecration by Clemente. But I've seen no proof for this whatsover.
So unless there's docuмentation/proof that Terrasson had been conditionally ordained before his consecration, the whole line is in doubt.
Consequently, we have to hold there to be positive doubt regarding the validity of Bishop Pfeiffer.
You make some very good points. I wonder if such a docuмent exists: conditional ordination before Terrasson consecration. That, in addition to the video of the conditional consecration of Pfeiffer would be necessary to prove the validity of Pfeiffer.
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You make some very good points. I wonder if such a docuмent exists: conditional ordination before Terrasson consecration. That, in addition to the video of the conditional consecration of Pfeiffer would be necessary to prove the validity of Pfeiffer.
Bp. Terrasson was conditionally ordained to the priesthood prior to his episcopal consecration. See pictures attached:
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Bp. Terrasson was conditionally ordained to the priesthood prior to his episcopal consecration. See pictures attached:
Thank you. One step done.
Can anyone translate?
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Now Fr. Pfeiffer needs to release the video of his conditional consecration before we can dispel the positive doubt about his consecration.
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Bp. Terrasson was conditionally ordained to the priesthood prior to his episcopal consecration. See pictures attached:
Now, the docuмent regarding ordination does not say that it was conditional. It's also interesting that the docuмents are in French when Clemente was a Spaniard. These look legitimate to me, nonetheless, but I'm no expert.
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Thank you. One step done.
Can anyone translate?
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Now Fr. Pfeiffer needs to release the video of his conditional consecration before we can dispel the positive doubt about his consecration.
I’ll translate it later or tomorrow; on cell right now.
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Now, the docuмent regarding ordination does not say that it was conditional. It's also interesting that the docuмents are in French when Clemente was a Spaniard. These look legitimate to me, nonetheless, but I'm no expert.
Oh? That IS interesting. Can “Mr.” Short provide an explanation, please?
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I’ll translate it later or tomorrow; on cell right now.
Here's the one for the Ordination. Please correct my translation if incorrect, since I am no expert in French.
To whom it may concern:
We, Clemente Dominguez y Gomez, Bishop, hereby make it known that we have ordained (as) a PRIEST the cleric Raymond Maurice Terrasson on the 18th of March 1976 in General House of the Carmelites of the Holy Face located in the city of Seville, Spain. This ceremony took place in the presence of the community of the General House.
The Reverent Raymond Maurice Terrrasson has the faculties of confessor, preacher, and distributor of the Sacraments of the Church to the faithful until their revocation [i.e. the revocation of said faculties].
18 March 1976
Witnesses [signatures] Bishop: [signature and seal]
There appear to be three distinct signatures of witnesses, but I can't decipher their handwriting at all.
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Oh? That IS interesting. Can “Mr.” Short provide an explanation, please?
There are possible explanations.
1) they considered his priestly ordination downright invalid and didn't bother to do it conditionally.
2) they just didn't know how to phrase it in a docuмent that the ordination was conditional [as these weren't exactly trained canon lawyers here]
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There are possible explanations.
1) they considered his priestly ordination downright invalid and didn't bother to do it conditionally.
2) they just didn't know how to phrase it in a docuмent that the ordination was conditional [as these weren't exactly trained canon lawyers here]
I haven’t looked at it yet, but what is the level of certitude they are what they claim to be? I’m a bit gun shy after Moran’s “paperwork.”
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I haven’t looked at it yet, but what is the level of certitude they are what they claim to be? I’m a bit gun shy after Moran’s “paperwork.”
Right now, I don't think there's any certain evidence they are genuine. They LOOK legit to me, but since all we have are electronic copies, they could have been shopped, with a known signature of Clemente from another docuмent (since he issued hundreds of these).
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Right now, I don't think there's any certain evidence they are genuine. They LOOK legit to me, but since all we have are electronic copies, they could have been shopped, with a known signature of Clemente from another docuмent (since he issued hundreds of these).
A priest or bishop needs to prove his own legitimacy and validity for the world to accept him. (It is not up to us to prove it for him. )
Until such time, it's best to avoid questionable clerics.
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It is quite possible that there were bi-lingual persons involved with the Carmelites of Palmar de Troya, Spain. Someone could of prepared the French certificate, and told Bp. Clemente to sign it after he conferred orders that day. Also It is quite probable that, Bp. Clemente considered orders received from Bp. Laborie as invalid, hence an absolute conferral of orders. For the record I call my self Mr. Short94 to signify, that I am an individual of shorter stature. I am a layman for anyone who is concerned. Also I am not Fr. Caleb Short, who was formerly a member of the CMRI. I do go where the facts lead me. Also I do try to reach out to clergy to hear first hand from them regarding their holy orders and apostolic successions.
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It is quite possible that there were bi-lingual persons involved with the Carmelites of Palmar de Troya, Spain. Someone could of prepared the French certificate, and told Bp. Clemente to sign it after he conferred orders that day. Also It is quite probable that, Bp. Clemente considered orders received from Bp. Laborie as invalid, hence an absolute conferral of orders. For the record I call my self Mr. Short94 to signify, that I am an individual of shorter stature. I am a layman for anyone who is concerned. Also I am not Fr. Caleb Short, who was formerly a member of the CMRI. I do go where the facts lead me. Also I do try to reach out to clergy to hear first hand from them regarding their holy orders and apostolic successions.
Fr. Short left the CMRI???
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Fr. Short left the CMRI???
Bump
Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
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Bump
Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
Fr. Anthony Short left CMRI because he started to deny BOD.
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My guess is the docuмents are in french since Terrasson was french. I first saw the reordination and consecration certificates via a french anglican priest who was ordained by him.
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Fr. Anthony Short left CMRI because he started to deny BOD.
Thank you.
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Traditionally, priests were married to women.
(It was stopped because of loss of real estate
to women and families which doesn’t make sense because Church laws could have prevented it from happening.
Look at the amount of Church real estate lost because of communist sodomy within priesthood. One too many perverts with Vatican II and just as many in traditional camps.
Our first Pope. St Peter had a wife and children. These are facts.
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Fr. Anthony Short left CMRI because he started to deny BOD.
The reason for Fr. Anthony leaving the CMRI had nothing to do with BOD. He departed rebelliously from the religious house, which was the culmination of repeated acts of disobedience and defiance, and showing no signs of amendment despite regular admonitions. He then found a home with Fr. Dominic Crawford (ordained by Bp. Webster, if Webster's orders are valid, and if we can trust Webster didn't botch that ordination also). It was not until after leaving the CMRI and associating with Fr. Crawford that Fr. Anthony began to reject BOD.
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Fr. Anthony Short left CMRI because he started to deny BOD.
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He was dismissed for a variety of reasons related to disobedience. Upon his dismissal, he joined up with Fr. Crawford but was not a Feeneyite when he did (at least, if he was telling the truth when he denied being one to those who asked). After about a month (maybe a little less, maybe a little more) of working with Crawford he became a Feeneyite.
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My guess is the docuмents are in french since Terrasson was french. I first saw the reordination and consecration certificates via a french anglican priest who was ordained by him.
Terrasson ordained an Anglican? How did that work?
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The reason for Fr. Anthony leaving the CMRI had nothing to do with BOD. He departed rebelliously from the religious house, which was the culmination of repeated acts of disobedience and defiance, and showing no signs of amendment despite regular admonitions. He then found a home with Fr. Dominic Crawford (ordained by Bp. Webster, if Webster's orders are valid, and if we can trust Webster didn't botch that ordination also). It was not until after leaving the CMRI and associating with Fr. Crawford that Fr. Anthony began to reject BOD.
Sounds like fr. Anthony and Fr. Pfeiffer are kindred spirits, perhaps fr. Crawford, too...
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Terrasson ordained an Anglican? How did that work?
The priest uaed to be sedevacantist but then he defected to trad high church Anglicanism independent of the Archlayman of Canterbury
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The priest uaed to be sedevacantist but then he defected to trad high church Anglicanism independent of the Archlayman of Canterbury
SoTerrasson did NOT ordain an anglican.