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Author Topic: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism  (Read 632 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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  • http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B999_M003_Bosco.html



    The Editor responds:

    Dear Mr. J.A. McFarlane,

    I thank you for the time you took to write this objection. I am also pleased to acknowledge that you are entitled to your own opinion and I respect it.

    You accused me of omitting to consider different tendencies among conservatives and traditionalists and, therefore, of harming the process of the former from becoming the latter.

    I do not agree with you. Although I accept that a gradual understanding of the truth can happen in some persons, I believed that those who know better have the obligation to warn those persons that they are not professing the entire truth. This is what I did. I believe that the Catholic truth should be publicly revealed in its fullness.

    If those first 62 intellectuals who signed the Filial Correction wanted to be believed and be considered as true Catholics, they should not attack only Pope Francis and cover for the other conciliar Popes, but should expose the ensemble of the six conciliar Popes who taught essentially the same as what Francis does. They also should not base their arguments upon the docuмents of Vatican II.

    No matter what one’s tendency is, he comes under suspicion of being a collaborator with Progressivism when he does what those intellectuals did. Further, the traditionalists who signed a Filial Correction with such flaws are still more suspect of collusion – not excluding your beloved Bishop Bernard Fellay – than the conservative scholars who wrote it.

        Cordially,

        Atila S. Guimarães
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline PG

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 04:25:05 PM »
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  • This is not surprising, and I am not agreeing or disagreeing.  But, I will say, this filial correction has gotten a lot of attention in the NO.  In the latest national catholic register there were two articles long articles about it.  And, I think raymond arroyo has been talking about it.  And, I wouldn't be surprised if this type of reasoning was in the mind of +Fellay and perhaps some of the other intellectuals to a certain degree.  Would they have followed that line of concern and withheld their signature, would this filial correction be as big of news as it is?  And, is a filial correction in essence good(yes)?  I have not read the filial correction, so I cannot comment as to whether it can be signed, but if we are simply referring to quoting the conservative quotes from V2 and post V2 popes, then I really am not interested in condemning that.  It does not constitute formal acceptance, and is therefore not evil.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 06:15:51 PM »
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  • This is what he was responding to:

    Conservatives, Interfaith Dialogue & Ultimatum


    Filial Correction Is Right – You Are Wrong




    Dear Mr. Guimaraes, 

    Pope Francis’ program to eliminate in practice the moral teaching of the Church has produced an unprecedented negative reaction from conservative Catholics. I think this is because morals have been their ghetto. It has the only area where they can find support from some of the conciliar popes, and moral theology is the only theological area that a conservative Catholic can enter in good conscience. Now that is being taken away from them, and they are beginning to realize that this is what the Holy Father was elected to accomplish. 

    So the Holy Father has inadvertently provided a starting point for bringing conservative Catholics to the Faith delivered once and for all to the Saints. 

    Against this background, I was saddened to see your critique of the Filial Correction. You are in effect saying that until conservative Catholics become traditional Catholics, or at least a lot closer to traditional Catholics than they are now, their efforts are a complete waste of time. Furthermore, you are in effect saying that no one but God will play any role in the reform. I find it hard to think of any position less Catholic in spirit and practice (or better, non-practice). 

    I think the proper Catholic spirit in which we should seek to reform the Church is shown in the explanation by Bishop Fellay of the SSPX of why he signed the Correctio. He both supports the Correctio and quotes Archbishop Lefebvre’s famous distinction between eternal Rome and modernist Rome. In order words: this is a starting point, though we still have a long way to go. 

         In Christo Rege et Maria

         J.A. McFarland 


    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 06:25:16 PM »
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  • .
    I expect that Atila S. Guimarães has it right and the signatories of the correction should be addressing the errors of the other post-Vat.II popes too, and should not be basing their argument on the Vat.II docuмents. 
    .
    And then I wonder:  If they had done that, would their correction even see the light of day?
    .
    Perhaps it was a stretch for +Fellay to sign it, but if he had NOT signed it, would that have been better? 
    .
    What seems to me to be most noteworthy about this correction is that all the supporters of it were able to put their heads together and make some move in the generally proper direction of calling to task the hierarchy for committing doctrinal errors and presuming everyone would follow.
    .
    Because that is EXACTLY what happened at Vat.II only there was no well-organized opposition. Curiously, there was a sort of whimper of an opposition, but that was shut down by the liberal iron fist of door-and-window slamming, and they all went home. End of story.
    .
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 09:01:23 PM »
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  • Atila Guimaraes correctly perceives the Cardinal's Dubia as an instrument to catalyze the reactions against the Bergolian Revolution into a false right and prevent them from seeking an authentic leadership (see bolded below):"


    http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/199bev12_30_2016.htm

    3. Strategically speaking


    The Wall Street Journal, above: Francis is the most expressive representative of the left - enlarge

    With the increase of speed in the Bergoglian Revolution, which was set up by none other than Benedict XVI, the number of reactions against Pope Francis is growing. Recently even a newspaper like The Wall Street Journal labeled him “the leader of the global left.”

     To catalyze these reactions, nothing could be more convenient than the emergence of a religious false right that would draw together all the discontent conservatives in the Church and prevent them from seeking an authentic leadership and possibly become traditionalists.


    This is what seems to be the goal of the four Cardinals, principally of Card. Burke, who is the most expressive and outspoken member of the group. His principal acolyte in the public arena is Bishop Schneider, whose role in the false right I have already analyzed.

    If this is true, which I believe it is, then this would explain why the Dubia were written with the certainty that it would not have an answer. Its goal would be to apparently put Francis in an embarrassing position. But in reality the writers would be playing the same game, allowing Francis to advance with a controlled reaction.

    How will all this end? It could end as suggested by the new General Superior of the Jesuits, Fr. Arturo Sosa: “In our language of the Jesuits, we say that it is necessary to know the opinion of all in order to make a true communal discernment.”

    In other words, the Progressivist Church may utlize this reaction to increase “pluralism” in the Church, which means that we could well have two parties in apparent opposition living together in the Vatican. This would help the Church to become a democracy, one of the main goals of Che Bergoglio.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 09:10:14 PM »
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  • What seems to me to be most noteworthy about this correction is that all the supporters of it were able to put their heads together and make some move in the generally proper direction of calling to task the hierarchy for committing doctrinal errors and presuming everyone would follow.
    .
    Because that is EXACTLY what happened at Vat.II only there was no well-organized opposition. Curiously, there was a sort of whimper of an opposition, but that was shut down by the liberal iron fist of door-and-window slamming, and they all went home. End of story..
    The opposition against the progressivist at Vatican II, called  Coetus Internationalis Patrum , was much larger, better organized and much longer lived than this Dubia False Right. There is no comparison, this Dubia False Right is already dying out.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Bp. Fellay Under Suspicion of Being a Collaborator with Progressivism
    « Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 09:47:22 PM »
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  •  There is no comparison, this Dubia False Right is already dying out.
    Literally.