Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

That's not Trent, it's a papal encyclical.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10chdoc.htm

Problem is that by the time that encyclical came out, the pope was saying the same thing as PPV 400 years earlier, but there was no a BOD in the original catechism. By 1910, a BOD already evolved into the catechisms.

So you were wrong. I quoted an encyclical of Pope St. Pius X, not a Novus Ordo docuмent translated by the Daughters of St. Paul.

Furthermore, you are now arguing that Pope St. Pius X wasn't referring to the Catechism at the time, or that he was unaware that it was unorthodox.

You're an idiot, stubborn ... and a truly stubborn idiot at that.

You still don't get it. Must be all the G-L trash that takes up all the room in your pea brain. Why not read Catholic teaching instead of the crap you've been reading?

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

That's not Trent, it's a papal encyclical.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10chdoc.htm

Problem is that by the time that encyclical came out, the pope was saying the same thing as PPV 400 years earlier, but there was no a BOD in the original catechism. By 1910, a BOD already evolved into the catechisms.

So you were wrong. I quoted an encyclical of Pope St. Pius X, not a Novus Ordo docuмent translated by the Daughters of St. Paul.

Furthermore, you are now arguing that Pope St. Pius X wasn't referring to the Catechism at the time, or that he was unaware that it was unorthodox.

You're an idiot, stubborn ... and a truly stubborn idiot at that.

You still don't get it. Must be all the G-L trash that takes up all the room in your pea brain. Why not read Catholic teaching instead of the crap you've been reading?

I've posted all sorts of Catholic teaching and orthodox sources and you reject everything not originating in your own tiny pea-sized brain.

Yes but SJB, everything you post contradicts magisterial teachings and has teachings which make people despise the sacraments just like you. So you really should stop posting those things as they are not only not Catholic, they are anti-Catholic. Try and remember that.

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: SJB

That's not Trent, it's a papal encyclical.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10chdoc.htm

Problem is that by the time that encyclical came out, the pope was saying the same thing as PPV 400 years earlier, but there was no a BOD in the original catechism. By 1910, a BOD already evolved into the catechisms.

So you were wrong. I quoted an encyclical of Pope St. Pius X, not a Novus Ordo docuмent translated by the Daughters of St. Paul.

Furthermore, you are now arguing that Pope St. Pius X wasn't referring to the Catechism at the time, or that he was unaware that it was unorthodox.

You're an idiot, stubborn ... and a truly stubborn idiot at that.

You still don't get it. Must be all the G-L trash that takes up all the room in your pea brain. Why not read Catholic teaching instead of the crap you've been reading?

I've posted all sorts of Catholic teaching and orthodox sources and you reject everything not originating in your own tiny pea-sized brain.

Yes but SJB, everything you post contradicts magisterial teachings and has teachings which make people despise the sacraments just like you. So you really should stop posting those things as they are not only not Catholic, they are anti-Catholic. Try and remember that.

You are a complete idiot. I've posted things that ARE Catholic teaching. When I post an encyclical, you dismiss it.

You have an anti-Catholic mindset, to put it in the best light possible.

No, no - I'm an idiot with an internet connection and time on my hands, remember?

I am pretty sure today was the first time I remember you posting an encyclical - but you still do not get the clue so I will try to 'splain it for you.
Pope St. Pius X was referring to the very same catechism that is on that link I gave you. The one that teaches the necessity of the sacraments for salvation. The one that does not teach a BOD.

He was not referring to a catechism that teaches a BOD or universal salvation like Fenton or G-L.

Certainly you understand better this time.
 

He is just frustrated. Soon as he accepts the truth and starts  doing the Catholic thing by defending the sacraments instead of belittling them, he'll figure it out.

Seems like he spent many years indoctrinating himself with the likes of Fenton and G-L - unfortunately, that's not something most people can hope to shake off overnight. Seems as though it's as tough to kick as heroin - but first he's gotta want to kick it.

 

I'm going to suggest to Matthew that all members on CI have to post their age and gender.

These SJB and Lover of Truth could be 20 year olds writing from their parents computer from the basement in their underwear. This SJB last night when I looked at the CI Church in Crisis section had the last posting in 9 BOD threads! Post anything on a BOD thread and he posts a sentence within seconds.

I have him on hide, so I don't read what he posts. But every time I checked before it was a sentence.

Quote from: SJB

If you are honest, you'd look and see that I've been calling these guys out as idiots the past several days and on this particular issue. I don't typically do this, but they deserve it, IMO.

You are free to disagree, but at least be man enough to be honest.

Now you call me a liar and not man enough, even worse than a simpleton. Gee thanks. I have been paying attention to your posts and am speaking the truth. I guess the insulter forgets his insults quicker than the one who is insulted.

No, I assumed you didn't look back far enough before YOU accused me of a history of "insults." Not a liar, just inaccurate.

You heroin BODers strain a gnat and swallow a herd of camels. What do gnats like these you are knit-picking on matter when:

Quote from: bowler

Notice that the three threads that I started are about Heroin BOD, the belief that a person can be saved even if he has no explicit desire to be a Catholic, nor to be baptized (of course), nor belief in Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.

I've been doing only that for quite some time, and these people like SJB, Lover of Truth, and Ambrose who persist in arguing with me, understand very well that they ARE DEFENDING HEROIN BOD, for that is all that I am talking about. Make no mistake about it this is not about a catechumen or a martyr for the faith that they are defending.

They are defending the teaching that persons who practice ANY false "religion",  can be saved even if they has no explicit desire to be a Catholic, nor explicit desire to be baptized , nor belief in Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
 

That belief they are defending is not taught by one Father, Doctor or Saint, and is opposed to the Council and Catechism of Trent, and all the dogmatic decrees on EENS and the Sacrament of Baptism.

Bowler,

Can you provide a source which defines for your modernist term, "Heroin BOD"?

Quote from: Ladislaus

Thank you.

OK, praise and venerate AS Creator of the world.  This is quite alright.  What he's saying is the NATURAL praise and veneration God in a natural state (i.e. in His condition as Creator, which can be known through natural reason) ... as opposed to revealed supernatural state of God.

I don't know if this is accurate or if its consistent with the latin there but supposedly this is what Pope Gregory VII said:

Quote

God, the Creator of all, without whom we cannot do or even think anything that is good, has inspired to your heart this act of kindness. He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2.4) and none to perish is well pleased to approve in us most of all that besides loving God men love other men, and do not do to others anything they do not want to be done unto themselves (cf. Mt. 7.14). We and you must show in a special way to the other nations an example of this charity, for we believe and confess one God, although in different ways, and praise and worship Him daily as the creator of all ages and the ruler of this world. For as the apostle says: "He is our peace who has made us both one." (Eph. 2.14) Many among the Roman nobility, informed by us of this grace granted to you by God, greatly admire and praise your goodness and virtues... God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in the present and in the future life. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth.

That last sentence is troubling as well.

The bosom of the Holy Patriarch Abraham is only to be found through the Catholic Church, I really don't see what is troubling with the statement unless you were out on a witch hunt. We should always pray that God may lead all men to the abode of true happiness which is with God in heaven, in the previous sentences he clearly states what the teaching of the Church says. He is not insinuating that they are performing supernatural acts, but simply praising natural virtue which is perfectly fine. We can be able to be grateful if a Muslim man crosses the old lady across the street etc...