.
This was a very good post:
This certainly applies:
15. Almost everybody who writes or comments on this subject explains the doctrine by explaining it away, as we shall see further on. He begins by affirming the truth of the axiom, Extra Ecciesiam, etc., and ends by denying it....
Father Wathen understood the crisis perfectly. Not only do BoDers explain EENS away immediately, but they explain the dogma away so much so that they even accuse those of us (like Father Feeney) who accept EENS as heretics for upholding the dogma.
They have turned EENS into teaching the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it actually says.
I see it as providential that this video was posted now.
Father Wathen points out that the Traditional movement, the sum of Traditional theological objections to V2, is rooted in EENS. In fact, to prove Father Wathen's statement true, +Sanborn uses EENS quotes to attack Vatican II. But then then makes EENS exceptions which Fastiggi exploits to show how Vatican II doe not contradict tradition.
EENS is the key, and Traditionalists who reject Vatican II but hold to extended BoD are in fact dishonest, as Fastiggi says. Their rejection of Vatican II can be reduced to a visceral reaction against and revulsion to clown Masses and similar liturgical abuses.
I would like to take this one step higher, if that's okay. This 'visceral reaction' is the principal substance of their opposition to everything Newchurch. Trads who reject Vat.II but accept BoD tend to rely on their 'feelings' about what's wrong with Newsacraments and Newmass and everything else Conciliar. It's as though their preference for the TLM is founded on its trappings and appearances and prayers, but not so much on the complete integrity of its doctrine. They will CLAIM to adhere to its doctrine, but when it comes to EENS, they defer to the popular notion of BoD and BoB as if they were fundamental principles.
There are some of these BoD-ers who try to keep TLM preference founded on doctrine, but they are frustrated because their thinking keeps running into self-contradictions. Other, more superficial Trads rely entirely on emotionalism, because they don't have the patience or perhaps the intelligence to think deeply about doctrine and theological principles. And when given the opportunity, they try to change topic to something they're more 'comfortable' talking about, such as movies, celebrities, politicians or their friends and acquaintances.
For these, the visceral reaction and revulsion they experience against clown masses and other liturgical abuses, is all they know. It's not right because it doesn't FEEL right. All they know is their feelings.
I would like to thank Stubborn and Ladislaus for this thread because your contributions are actually more informative than the recorded debate.
.