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Author Topic: Bp Daniel Dolan has died  (Read 16163 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
« Reply #270 on: May 07, 2022, 01:53:07 PM »
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  • And here we go [approx minute 9 or so]:

    http://www.sgg.org/2021/07/18/three-moral-questions/

    Will Fr Jenkins apologize and retract now?  I won't hold my breath.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #271 on: May 07, 2022, 02:37:06 PM »
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  • This is completely different than speculating openly, say, whether some married man is committing adultery.  And I believe that those who are outraged by Father Jenkins' speculation in their minds somehow lump taking the jab into this same category, of someone committing what is clearly and obviously a grave sin.
    I'm "outraged" because he was willfully ignorant about the matter of +Dolan's position on it and then decided to go on air and "openly speculate" about whether or not the jab was what did him in. All it would've taken is five minutes to go to SGG's website and find out +Dolan's position on the jab before opening his mouth and spreading rumors about his cause of death.

    And then, when confronted with an email correcting his error, he still doubles-down and insists on claiming ignorance when he could've remained quiet on the matter in the first place.

    As for the jab being a grave sin, I'm on the fence. I don't personally trust it given the connections to abortion, the political push for it and the risk of adverse side effects. But I'm also still skeptical about it being some sort of tool to cull the population or sterilize people when I know numerous people, and several relatives, who have since conceived and have healthy pregnancies post-jab/booster or are perfectly healthy going on close to a year later.
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth." [2 Cor. 3:6]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #272 on: May 07, 2022, 02:52:11 PM »
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  • I'm "outraged" because he was willfully ignorant about the matter of +Dolan's position on it and then decided to go on air and "openly speculate" about whether or not the jab was what did him in. All it would've taken is five minutes to go to SGG's website and find out +Dolan's position on the jab before opening his mouth and spreading rumors about his cause of death.

    And then, when confronted with an email correcting his error, he still doubles-down and insists on claiming ignorance when he could've remained quiet on the matter in the first place.

    As for the jab being a grave sin, I'm on the fence. I don't personally trust it given the connections to abortion, the political push for it and the risk of adverse side effects. But I'm also still skeptical about it being some sort of tool to cull the population or sterilize people when I know numerous people, and several relatives, who have since conceived and have healthy pregnancies post-jab/booster or are perfectly healthy going on close to a year later.
    Exactly.  No one needs to believe the jab is a mortal sin to be outraged by Fr Jenkins' actions.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #273 on: May 07, 2022, 06:16:30 PM »
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  • Meh, your outrage is out of line and excessive.  Father Jenkins was speculating about a matter that would not have been a serious sin on Bishop Dolan's part (given that the morality of the jab is a disputed question).  It's no different than were he to have speculated about whether Bishop Dolan had started permitting Feeneyites to communion at SGG.

    You need to separate your own personal conclusion about the jab being gravely sinful from the equation to have an objective view of the matter.  2V, furthermore, has to separate out the SSPV's (admittedly unjust) animosity against the CMRI and +Thuc line from her perspective.

    My biggest problem with SSPV, including Father Jenkins, is their imposition of their own theological opinions regarding CMRI and +Thuc line on the faithful.  I don't even care that they have an opinion on the matter, as they're entitled to have an opinion.  Where I have issues is imposing this on the consciences of other Catholics under pain of withholding the Sacraments.

    Offline Giacomo

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #274 on: May 19, 2022, 06:00:39 PM »
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  • Post #185 (by Ladislauus) struck a harmonious chord in my mind, especially what it said about traddie priests and bishops having no authority whatsoever, etc.  This, of course, is what the blog Pistrina Liturgica has been pointing for over a decade (and, although not in such a technically superior way, the Lay Pulpit blog as well).  But, after pondering Ladislaus’ post a whiles, it also struck me that, while he was being deservedly applauded for what he said in his post, “Bocca della Verità” (who had posted several times on the “Dolan vs. Sanborn” thread on this website) was BANNED from the website for saying essentially the same thing.



    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #275 on: May 19, 2022, 06:39:36 PM »
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  • It seems Bocca cares quite a bit about his banning since he "sent" you (as if you and he were not the same person) to post about such an "unjust" banning here. (Did it detract from online traffic to your calumnious blog?)

    The thing is, this is first and foremost an SSPX-Resistance forum, not a sedevacantist, or Catholic fringe forum. You (or Bocca's) disrespectful reference to the good Bishop Williamson, being the head of the Resistance, as anything but Bishop solidify Matthew's decision to ban you. Furthermore, Bocca's posts didn't really contribute much else than to provide a verbose muddying of the already murky waters of traditional Catholic ecclesiology.

    Second, Matthew owns the forum and he is free to ban whosoever he wishes, justly or unjustly.

    Third, Lad's endorsement of the idea of traditional clergy having no authority is not at all the same as your "defrocking" of traditional clergy by refusing to refer to them with their specific titles.
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth." [2 Cor. 3:6]

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #276 on: May 19, 2022, 08:24:18 PM »
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  • Giacomo has been banned -- for everything.

    In particular, for being a fool. He is so blinded by his "side" that he must needs attack those outside his cult/clique/group.

    He decided to conflate the fundamental lack of authority that ALL Trad bishops have, with the real fact of possessing Episcopal power and orders itself!
    Yes, every Trad bishop who isn't in formal schism (who doesn't pretend to jurisdiction "in competition" with other Roman Catholic bishops) is only an "auxiliary" or basically a sacrament-dispenser, for the good of the Faithful and the Church in general. The Church needs priests. The Faithful need Confirmation. Holy Oils are needed.

    But although Trad bishops are vested with no formal authority from the Pope, that doesn't mean they aren't bishops! Or that they shouldn't be referred to as such.

    Giacomo blathers on about how intelligent his side is, but he's a complete moron about how Church authority and Holy Orders work.

    And he's a complete tool for "his side". 
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    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #277 on: May 19, 2022, 09:21:03 PM »
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  • Giacomo has been banned -- for everything.

    In particular, for being a fool. He is so blinded by his "side" that he must needs attack those outside his cult/clique/group.

    He decided to conflate the fundamental lack of authority that ALL Trad bishops have, with the real fact of possessing Episcopal power and orders itself!
    Yes, every Trad bishop who isn't in formal schism (who doesn't pretend to jurisdiction "in competition" with other Roman Catholic bishops) is only an "auxiliary" or basically a sacrament-dispenser, for the good of the Faithful and the Church in general. The Church needs priests. The Faithful need Confirmation. Holy Oils are needed.

    But although Trad bishops are vested with no formal authority from the Pope, that doesn't mean they aren't bishops! Or that they shouldn't be referred to as such.

    Giacomo blathers on about how intelligent his side is, but he's a complete moron about how Church authority and Holy Orders work.

    And he's a complete tool for "his side".
    You mean... Mr. Giacomo
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.


    Offline Attracta

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #278 on: May 20, 2022, 10:25:46 AM »
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  • I must respectfully disagree with Matthew.  In my and my son's reading (he's a priest of the Society),
    ...
    Nowhere did poor Giacomo say that traditional bishops, even if consecrated without a mandate, did not  possess the sacramental powers of the order of the episcopate. He simply vindicated a former forum member's thesis that bishops consecrated outside the visible Church structure had no legal right to the vesture and style granted to prelates by the Popes.



    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #279 on: May 20, 2022, 11:05:39 AM »
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  • I must respectfully disagree with Matthew.  In my and my son's reading (he's a priest of the Society),
    ...
    Nowhere did poor Giacomo say that traditional bishops, even if consecrated without a mandate, did not  possess the sacramental powers of the order of the episcopate. He simply vindicated a former forum member's thesis that bishops consecrated outside the visible Church structure had no legal right to the vesture and style granted to prelates by the Popes.

    Sorry, he's just wrong.

    Sacrament-dispenser bishops without jurisdiction, validly and morally consecrated for the good of the Faithful and of the Church during this Crisis are certainly Bishops, and should be treated as such.

    The ONLY difference between these Trad bishops, all consecrated without a Papal mandate, and normal bishops is JURISDICTION (authority). Trad bishops have no explicit jurisdiction conferred on them merely by the fact of their consecration. Jurisdiction only comes directly from the Pope. So Trad bishops aren't "married" to any particular diocese (what the episcopal ring represents, by the way).

    If it were proper to refer to Bishops as "Mr." instead of "Bishop" or even "Father" for some technicality or obscure reason, then I would have been taught that at the seminary. It's not like I don't know what I'm talking about.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #280 on: May 20, 2022, 11:20:17 AM »
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  • I must respectfully disagree with Matthew.  In my and my son's reading (he's a priest of the Society),
    ...
    Nowhere did poor Giacomo say that traditional bishops, even if consecrated without a mandate, did not  possess the sacramental powers of the order of the episcopate. He simply vindicated a former forum member's thesis that bishops consecrated outside the visible Church structure had no legal right to the vesture and style granted to prelates by the Popes.
    Yet your son was ordained a priest forever by the hands of a bishop consecrated himself outside the visible Church structure, yes? All 3 of the current bishops of the Society were consecrated as such intentionally by +Lefebvre.
    pray


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #281 on: May 20, 2022, 03:33:15 PM »
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  • I must respectfully disagree with Matthew.  In my and my son's reading (he's a priest of the Society),
    ...
    Nowhere did poor Giacomo say that traditional bishops, even if consecrated without a mandate, did not  possess the sacramental powers of the order of the episcopate. He simply vindicated a former forum member's thesis that bishops consecrated outside the visible Church structure had no legal right to the vesture and style granted to prelates by the Popes.
    You're confusing validity with liceity. Even if bishops are ILLICIT, they should be called "Bishop", not "Mr." because their orders are VALID.

    Now, Bishop Dolan has died.  But will this thread die?
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #282 on: May 20, 2022, 05:37:20 PM »
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  • Honestly, I don't believe that this is a real person... Part of the whole MO of the SSPX was working against Rome. It was a big enough deal that many priests who were ordained by Lefebvre left to join Rome and that became the Fraternity of St. Peter. Why would a priest speak against the whole reason he is ordained a priest?
    pray

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #283 on: May 20, 2022, 07:39:33 PM »
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  • I must respectfully disagree with Matthew.  In my and my son's reading (he's a priest of the Society),

    Wow, what are they teaching in SSPX seminaries these days?  This probably goes hand in hand with the notion that +Fellay and SSPX have jurisdiction, which makes them good, but the Resistance and SVs are bad and schismatic.