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Author Topic: Bp Daniel Dolan has died  (Read 15414 times)

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Offline Jr1991

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Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
« Reply #255 on: May 06, 2022, 11:08:24 PM »
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  • It is all very confusing. Why would the SSPX sell-off paid-off chapels in high-priced areas of the country--It makes absolutely no sense.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #256 on: May 06, 2022, 11:13:30 PM »
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  • Why would the SSPX sell-off paid-off chapels in high-priced areas of the country--It makes absolutely no sense.

    Pure profit is actually a rather enticing motive, especially during the final stage of an historical real estate bubble.  Whether or not that is the case is another matter, of course.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #257 on: May 06, 2022, 11:33:45 PM »
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  • Yes, I would agree, but the parishioners will incur debt that will eventually have to be paid. They (SSPX) are more interested in building structures than saving souls. I took a look at the Church they are constructing in Kansas, and the amount of money spent is staggering.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #258 on: May 07, 2022, 12:14:51 AM »
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  • Fr. Jenkins doubles down on the late Bishop Dolan. Start at the 16:00 minute mark. 

    https://www.wcbohio.com/


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #259 on: May 07, 2022, 05:28:35 AM »
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  • Fr. Jenkins doubles down on the late Bishop Dolan. Start at the 16:00 minute mark.

    https://www.wcbohio.com/
    :facepalm:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #260 on: May 07, 2022, 05:32:55 AM »
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  • Strictly speaking, a priest shouldn’t make any changes to the rubrics unless the bishop authorized him to.  It’s a temptation from the devil (in my opinion) to “do your own thing”.  It’s totally against the whole purpose of rubrics and church authority. 


    And, it’s also making a mountain out of a molehill because it’s a temptation to re-interpret the prayer to mean more than it actually does.  That’s how I see it.

    Hold that thought…!
    I want to come back to this point you’re making.

    IMHO, This hits in the essence of Catholic tradition and the kosher form of neo-SSPX tradition.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #261 on: May 07, 2022, 06:25:11 AM »
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  • If I were a priest, I would say the una cuм famulo tuo papa nostro but leave out the name of Bergoglio.  That signifies the formal intent to submit to the papacy while not polluting the Sacred Canon with the name of the heresiarch (if not apostate) Bergoglio.  Pope is listed among the "guardians/custodians" of the faith.  I couldn't put Bergoglio's name in that list with a straight face.  I'd feel as if I were injecting a lie into the most sacred action of the Church.
    It is not our right to decide to change by omission any thing or any part of the Mass - that's precisely what the criminals did with the NO service.

    Incred posted:
    We offer them to Thee in the first place for Thy Holy Catholic Church: vouchsafe, throughout the whole world, to keep her in peace, to watch over her in unity and to guide her, in union with N____, Thy servant our Pope, N___ our bishop and all right believing teachers of the Catholic apostolic faith.

    The prayer is the offering the gifts, first of all for the Church. So the priest is praying first of all for the Church, and at the same time although mentioned second, for the pope and bishop and all the faithful.

    So the priest is praying for the Church, pope, bishop and all the faithful. He is not praying that he is in union, agrees, supports or promotes a heretic. What harm does it do to pray for the pope in the Mass - even if he were not the pope?

    "This famous Una cuм of the sedevacantists...ridiculous! ridiculous .... it’s ridiculous, it's ridiculous. In fact it is not at all the meaning of the prayer"
    - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, retreat at St-Michel en Brenne, April 1st, 1989
     
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #262 on: May 07, 2022, 06:47:05 AM »
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  • Fr. Jenkins doubles down on the late Bishop Dolan. Start at the 16:00 minute mark.

    https://www.wcbohio.com/
    "I did not know the position of Fr. Dolan on the vax .... why would I know that?"
    Then WHY WOULD YOU PUBLICLY SPECULATE THAT HE DIED FROM IT? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


    Quote
    "The SSPV does not accept the legitimacy and accept the validity of the Thuc bishops"
    "I refer to Abp. Vigano as Archbishop Vigano because that is his public persona...that is how he publishes."
    And Bp. Dolan published and presented himself publicly as BISHOP Dolan even though Fr. Jenkins doubts both his consecration as Bishop and doubts the validity of Novus Ordo consecrations. Yet, he chooses to refer to Vigano as "Archbishop", making the distinction that he is a Novus Ordo Archbishop, but does not offer Bishop Dolan the same respect because his anti-Thuc position makes him choose not to, even though he views both as doubtful or invalid in their titles. It's hypocritical.

    I'm very disappointed in Fr. Jenkins's response and how he's handling this.
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #263 on: May 07, 2022, 06:51:26 AM »
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  • Fr. Jenkins doubles down on the late Bishop Dolan. Start at the 16:00 minute mark.

    https://www.wcbohio.com/
    How pathetic.

    Someone should send him a link to either a Bishop Dolan sermon or writing that proves that person was correct in stating his position on the vaxx.  Maybe then he'd retract his calumnious remarks.

    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #264 on: May 07, 2022, 06:57:12 AM »
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  • "I did not know the position of Fr. Dolan on the vax .... why would I know that?"
    Then WHY WOULD YOU PUBLICLY SPECULATE THAT HE DIED FROM IT? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

    And then he compares Bishop Dolan to an employee who was against the vaxx, but was forced to take the vaxx and died from it.  
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #265 on: May 07, 2022, 06:58:49 AM »
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  • And then he compares Bishop Dolan to an employee who was against the vaxx, but was forced to take the vaxx and died from it. 
    You could tell by his answer that he realized the error, but rather than humbly apologize on camera for the mistake he continued to speculate and dismiss it as personal ignorance. Shameful.
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #266 on: May 07, 2022, 07:03:15 AM »
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  • You could tell by his answer that he realized the error, but rather than humbly apologize on camera for the mistake he continued to speculate and dismiss it as personal ignorance. Shameful.
    Yes, his body language says all.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #267 on: May 07, 2022, 07:55:13 AM »
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  • Yes, I would agree, but the parishioners will incur debt that will eventually have to be paid. They (SSPX) are more interested in building structures than saving souls. I took a look at the Church they are constructing in Kansas, and the amount of money spent is staggering.

    Not only that but that abomination of a seminary.  FIFTY MILLION dollars.  They could have built a terrific addition onto the seminary in Winona for 1-2 million tops.  There was plenty a land to expand on.  But running out of room was just an excuse.  They only ran out of room because they expanded to include a minor seminary, but again a modest addition to the building could have solved that issue.

    I thought that Traditional Catholics believe that the Church will be restored and the Conciliar properties will be returned to Catholic use.

    SSPX is implicitly behaving as if the Crisis situation will continue indefinitely as a “New Normal” ... so basically the V2 ecclesiology of partial communion.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #268 on: May 07, 2022, 09:21:17 AM »
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  • "I did not know the position of Fr. Dolan on the vax .... why would I know that?"
    Then WHY WOULD YOU PUBLICLY SPECULATE THAT HE DIED FROM IT? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

    And Bp. Dolan published and presented himself publicly as BISHOP Dolan even though Fr. Jenkins doubts both his consecration as Bishop and doubts the validity of Novus Ordo consecrations. Yet, he chooses to refer to Vigano as "Archbishop", making the distinction that he is a Novus Ordo Archbishop, but does not offer Bishop Dolan the same respect because his anti-Thuc position makes him choose not to, even though he views both as doubtful or invalid in their titles. It's hypocritical.

    I'm very disappointed in Fr. Jenkins's response and how he's handling this.

    I did say that he likely didn't know Bishop Dolan's position on the jab and that he was just thinking out loud based on the association we have between the jab and cardiac issues.  I have to admit that whenever someone dies of a heart attack or stroke these days, the first thing that pops into my mind is to begin wondering about the jab.  That thought did cross my mind also when Bishop Dolan died, but then took a second to recall his extreme opposition to it.  I only knew about it due to that video from Bishop Sanborn in response to Bishop Dolan's having excoriated them for being soft on the jab.

    Bishop Sanborn has in fact been soft on the jab, and, as Father Jenkins mentioned, given the surprising position that Bishop Dolan took regarding the Schiavo case and his long-time association and alliance with Bishop Sanborn, I don't think it's obvious that Bishop Dolan would have been against the jab.  And I believe Father Jenkins that he hasn't really kept up with dispute between Bishop Sanborn and Dolan.

    Closest Father Jenkins came to an apology was to say it may have been imprudent to think out loud and to speculate on the subject.  He probably should have apologized for speculating about it instead of just saying that it was imprudent.

    It's not really calumny, though, in that it's a disputed question (evidently) among Traditional Catholics whether the jab is immoral.  So, for instance, Bishop Sanborn and SSPX and some others are really soft on the jab and think it's justifiable.  So this is not the same thing as speculating about something that's clearly sinful, say, wondering out loud if Bishop Dolan was a pedophile.  THAT would be clear calumny.  Here, the question is speculating about what position Bishop Dolan might have taken regarding the jab.  Referring to it as calumny begs the question that anyone who takes the jab is guilty of mortal sin.  I don't believe that at all.  I have formed my own conscience in such a way that I would consider myself guilty of mortal sin if I took the jab, but I also cannot impose my conscience on others.  I know some people who have taken the jab and don't consider them guilty of grave sin.  They were parroting back the "remote material" stuff promoted by SSPX.  They're certaintly guilty of stupidity, but that's as far as I woud take it.  There's no ruling on the matter by the Church, so I refuse to impose my conscience on them.  I am very consistent and adamant about that.

    So I do think this is more a question of mistaken speculation regarding Bishop Dolan's theological conclusions regarding the jab than a question of accusing someone of committing a sin.  I wouldn't accuse Bishop Sanborn or the various SSPX priests of mortal sin if they were to take the jab, since they have formed their conscieces differently.  I think they're wrong and that it's objectively a grave sin, but I am not their judge.

    Let's say Bishop Fellay suddently died of a heart attack.  Wouldn't we all begin speculating about whether he took the jab?  Of course we would,.  That's not slander nor calumny.  Even if he had taken the jab, we'd hold +Fellay guilty of bad moral theology, but not mortal sin, as that would, to repeat, entail begging the question regarding the moral status of the jab and then imposing that opinion on the consciences of others.

    Now, Father Jenkins admirably denounced dogmatic sedevacantists for imposing their positions on other people's consciences.  But, alas, he and the SSPV do the same thing by imposing their theological conclusions regarding the +Thuc line on others.  He also claimed that they were not "Catholic" bishops even if they were valid.  Where does he get off making that claim?  Sure, SOME of the +Thuc bishops were associated with the CMRI, but not all, especially the +McKenna line.  But even with the CMRI, where does Father Jenkins get off declaring CMRI not to be Catholic?  It's based solely on Schuckhardt's initial assocation with the Old Catholics, but the CMRI assert that the Old Catholic bishop had made an abjuration of error before ordaining / consecrating Shuckhardt.  And, even if he didn't, receiving Orders from a non-Catholic does not inherently make someone a non-Catholic.  So SSPV have been arrogating unto themselves the Church's authority in imposing their theological position about CMRI and the Thuc line on other people's consciences.  So Father is in fact guilty of that which he denounces.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #269 on: May 07, 2022, 09:25:33 AM »
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  • I believe that the outrage over Father Jenkins' speculation entails a latent assumption that taking the jab is a grave sin.  That's why I am not nearly as outraged.  I put it in the same category as wondering whether some Traditional Catholic might sometimes attend a Novus Ordo Mass.  I think it's wrong to go to the Novus Ordo Mass, but I also see that I have no authority to impose that on someone else's conscience and would not impute mortal sin to someone who attended the NOM.  They reached different theological conclusions about the matter than I have.  I will argue that they're wrong and that it's objectively a grave matter, but I'm not going to judge their state of soul over something that has not been determined by the Church's authority.

    This is completely different than speculating openly, say, whether some married man is committing adultery.  And I believe that those who are outraged by Father Jenkins' speculation in their minds somehow lump taking the jab into this same category, of someone committing what is clearly and obviously a grave sin.