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Author Topic: Bp Daniel Dolan has died  (Read 24056 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
« Reply #180 on: May 01, 2022, 06:55:48 PM »
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  • From Father Hesse's explanation, the method of Baptism (Water, Desire & Blood) is not dogmatically defined.

    But the rejection of the Extra Ecclasium Nulla Salus dogma is a problem... shared by many Traditionalist, especially the SSPX.

    Yes, and I agree that there is a serious problem with rejection of EENS among traddies. I don't even disagree with the theological issues they bring up about +Dolan. But going as far as to say that we shouldn't pray for an undeclared "heretic" such as Bp. Dolan and saying without a doubt he is in hell is simply despicable.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #181 on: May 01, 2022, 07:17:20 PM »
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  • Yes, and I agree that there is a serious problem with rejection of EENS among traddies. I don't even disagree with the theological issues they bring up about +Dolan. But going as far as to say that we shouldn't pray for an undeclared "heretic" such as Bp. Dolan and saying without a doubt he is in hell is simply despicable.

    Agreed.  I call it "Dark sedevanctism".
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #182 on: May 01, 2022, 07:22:13 PM »
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  • The only real drawback is...you live in Ohio!

    Nah, but I like it here.  We have 4 seasons (although they're getting more and more screwed up).  I couldn't take warm/hot all year around (like in Texas or Florida).  Makes you really enjoy the Spring (and the Fall).  We're not prone to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods (except right on the banks of some rivers), or tornados (not the big ones anyway).  We don't have any poinsonous snakes or spiders up here.  Because of the Winter, we don't have mosquitos that have 2-feet wingspans.  No scorpions or fireants or stuff like that.  We don't have terrible traffic like a lot of major cities.  If we want to visit Chicago or Washington DC, it's about 6 hours in opposite directions.  We don't have worry about droughts or water supply issues, since we have a huge freshwater lake nearby.  Plenty of tillable soil.  I wouldn't mind some more sunshine throughout the year (tends to be on the cloudy side), but other than that I have zero complaints.  And, did I mention that we have a very low cost of living compared to most other parts of the country.  I've lived in DC and Chicago, and it's much more expensive there ... to say nothing of California.  House I have here would probably go for 2 million dollars in CA.  Tons of Catholic culture, beautiful old churches (that we'll reclaim some day), etc.

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #183 on: May 01, 2022, 07:26:11 PM »
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  • This is why, IMO, expecting anything short of divine intervention to end the Crisis or even mitigate it is futile. 

    If tomorrow at dawn, they declared the Crisis over and suddenly all the Trad groups were to merge into the local ordinary, we'd be back to yesterday's madness by about noon. Maybe 10:30am at the absolute earliest.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #184 on: May 01, 2022, 07:37:23 PM »
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  • The only real drawback is...you live in Ohio!

    Ohio's all right.  I have traveled there extensively and have had some ties there.  My uncle and his family used to live in Cleveland.

    The economy's not the best in many parts of the state, and not to sound cavalier or dismissive, but with a retirement income, where I live really doesn't matter.  I live on a shoestring as it is now.  Many of my groceries come from Aldi.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #185 on: May 01, 2022, 07:38:51 PM »
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  • Agreed.  I call it "Dark sedevanctism".

    It's precisely what I was calling out with these Traditional priests and clergy themselves.  They elevate their theological opinions to the level of dogma.  Ironically, I agree with the Dimonds regarding most of their material conclusions, but imposing them on others under pain of heresy is crossing the line into schism.  This refusal of communion by Trad clergy based on theological positions is also basically schismatic.

    Note to Trad bishops, priests, and Dimond brothers.  You have NO authority whatsoever.  You are not theologians.  You bishops are not part of the Ecclesia Docens.  You priests are not "pastors" over the faithful who attend your chapels (not parishes).  Nobody with authority in the Church put you in charge of anything.  You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.  Even if you're smart and can spin some good syllogisms, you are NOT teachers (much less theologians) NOR pastors NOR anything.  You cannot bind other people's consciences with your conclusions.  When you get up in the pulpit to preach, you are merely OPINING and your opinion has no more authority than that of any laymen sitting there listening to you.  You are not TEACHING as no one has appointed you to teach.  YOUR SOLE FUNCTION is to be an emergency extraordinary dispenser of the Sacraments to the Catholic faithful.  That's it.  As such, the faithful have a right to receive the Sacraments, and you are obligated to make them available to them.  Apart from obvious direct contradiction of Catholic dogma ("nah, I don't believe in the Holy Trinity" or "I don't believe in the Real Presence" or "I believe that abortion or sodomy are permissible." ... where there's direct open rejection of Church teaching) YOU CANNOT EXCOMMUNICATE ANYONE by refusing them the Sacraments because they don't agree with your theological take on the Crisis.  If you do so, you violate gravely your sole purpose for having been ordained and/or consecrated.  You are not better than the faithful nor have you deserved Holy Orders.  No man does.  Holy Orders are given not for your glory but for the good of the faithful.  Even you bishops, you have no more authority than anyone else.  You are like auxliaries whose sole purpose is to make available the Sacraments that cannot be had without episcopal consecration (Confirmation, Holy Orders).  I've had enough of your petty, puerile, and arrogant nonsense.  You harm the Church with this idiocy and bring shame upon Traditional Catholics as a whole.  Your petty fighting and turf battles bring shame upon us all.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on the Crisis, and you can try to persuade others of it, but that's as far as it goes.  You can advise the faithful that you believe they risk their souls by going to +Thuc line clergy for Sacraments, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with you.  You can admonish the una cuм folks, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments.  You may reject Feeneyism at the top of your lungs, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to Feeneyites.  You can believe that many NO annulments are invalid, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to those who disagree and who believe their annulments are legitimate.  You have NO AUTHORITY to bind ANYONE'S conscience regarding ANY of these matters that have not been authoritatively settled by the Church.  You come across like a bunch of 4-year-olds "playing Church".  Snap out of this and grow up.  You were not made bishops and priests so that you can walk around relishing how the faithful tip their heads out of respect and call you "Father" or "Your Excellency".  Many of you would be bagging groceries at Walmart had you not been undeservedly selected to receive Holy Orders for the good of the faithful.  Your behavior is a scandal.

    OPEN LETTER TO TRAD CLERGY,
    Laszlo Szijarto

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #186 on: May 01, 2022, 07:48:17 PM »
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  • I myself have some very strong opinions on the Crisis, but even if I were a priest or bishop, I would never dare impose them on anyone or refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with me.  Period.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #187 on: May 01, 2022, 08:01:54 PM »
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  • You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.

    This is giving the training throughout Traddieland far too much credit.  It is not nearly as solid as what was given everywhere pre-V2.  What is more, not a single member of any of the Trad staffs has the credentials held by every single member of the staffs in pre-V2 days.

    Your letter/summary is excellent.  I have said the same for many years.  Sadly, we both know that very few (if any) priests throughout all of Traddieland have the ears to hear and humility of heart to profitably process the message.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #188 on: May 01, 2022, 08:53:38 PM »
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  • It's precisely what I was calling out with these Traditional priests and clergy themselves.  They elevate their theological opinions to the level of dogma.  Ironically, I agree with the Dimonds regarding most of their material conclusions, but imposing them on others under pain of heresy is crossing the line into schism.  This refusal of communion by Trad clergy based on theological positions is also basically schismatic.

    Note to Trad bishops, priests, and Dimond brothers.  You have NO authority whatsoever.  You are not theologians.  You bishops are not part of the Ecclesia Docens.  You priests are not "pastors" over the faithful who attend your chapels (not parishes).  Nobody with authority in the Church put you in charge of anything.  You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.  Even if you're smart and can spin some good syllogisms, you are NOT teachers (much less theologians) NOR pastors NOR anything.  You cannot bind other people's consciences with your conclusions.  When you get up in the pulpit to preach, you are merely OPINING and your opinion has no more authority than that of any laymen sitting there listening to you.  You are not TEACHING as no one has appointed you to teach.  YOUR SOLE FUNCTION is to be an emergency extraordinary dispenser of the Sacraments to the Catholic faithful.  That's it.  As such, the faithful have a right to receive the Sacraments, and you are obligated to make them available to them.  Apart from obvious direct contradiction of Catholic dogma ("nah, I don't believe in the Holy Trinity" or "I don't believe in the Real Presence" or "I believe that abortion or sodomy are permissible." ... where there's direct open rejection of Church teaching) YOU CANNOT EXCOMMUNICATE ANYONE by refusing them the Sacraments because they don't agree with your theological take on the Crisis.  If you do so, you violate gravely your sole purpose for having been ordained and/or consecrated.  You are not better than the faithful nor have you deserved Holy Orders.  No man does.  Holy Orders are given not for your glory but for the good of the faithful.  Even you bishops, you have no more authority than anyone else.  You are like auxliaries whose sole purpose is to make available the Sacraments that cannot be had without episcopal consecration (Confirmation, Holy Orders).  I've had enough of your petty, puerile, and arrogant nonsense.  You harm the Church with this idiocy and bring shame upon Traditional Catholics as a whole.  Your petty fighting and turf battles bring shame upon us all.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on the Crisis, and you can try to persuade others of it, but that's as far as it goes.  You can advise the faithful that you believe they risk their souls by going to +Thuc line clergy for Sacraments, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with you.  You can admonish the una cuм folks, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments.  You may reject Feeneyism at the top of your lungs, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to Feeneyites.  You can believe that many NO annulments are invalid, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to those who disagree and who believe their annulments are legitimate.  You have NO AUTHORITY to bind ANYONE'S conscience regarding ANY of these matters that have not been authoritatively settled by the Church.  You come across like a bunch of 4-year-olds "playing Church".  Snap out of this and grow up.  You were not made bishops and priests so that you can walk around relishing how the faithful tip their heads out of respect and call you "Father" or "Your Excellency".  Many of you would be bagging groceries at Walmart had you not been undeservedly selected to receive Holy Orders for the good of the faithful.  Your behavior is a scandal.

    OPEN LETTER TO TRAD CLERGY,
    Laszlo Szijarto
    Well said. 

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #189 on: May 01, 2022, 08:59:48 PM »
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  • There are many stories on SSPX chapel takeovers and real-estate flipping.  They have perfected the process.

    I wonder if anyone has a list of all the chapels the SSPX has flipped that were willed to them by an independent priest. Where did the money go?

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #190 on: May 01, 2022, 09:31:49 PM »
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  • It's precisely what I was calling out with these Traditional priests and clergy themselves.  They elevate their theological opinions to the level of dogma.  Ironically, I agree with the Dimonds regarding most of their material conclusions, but imposing them on others under pain of heresy is crossing the line into schism.  This refusal of communion by Trad clergy based on theological positions is also basically schismatic.

    Note to Trad bishops, priests, and Dimond brothers.  You have NO authority whatsoever.  You are not theologians.  You bishops are not part of the Ecclesia Docens.  You priests are not "pastors" over the faithful who attend your chapels (not parishes).  Nobody with authority in the Church put you in charge of anything.  You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.  Even if you're smart and can spin some good syllogisms, you are NOT teachers (much less theologians) NOR pastors NOR anything.  You cannot bind other people's consciences with your conclusions.  When you get up in the pulpit to preach, you are merely OPINING and your opinion has no more authority than that of any laymen sitting there listening to you.  You are not TEACHING as no one has appointed you to teach.  YOUR SOLE FUNCTION is to be an emergency extraordinary dispenser of the Sacraments to the Catholic faithful.  That's it.  As such, the faithful have a right to receive the Sacraments, and you are obligated to make them available to them.  Apart from obvious direct contradiction of Catholic dogma ("nah, I don't believe in the Holy Trinity" or "I don't believe in the Real Presence" or "I believe that abortion or sodomy are permissible." ... where there's direct open rejection of Church teaching) YOU CANNOT EXCOMMUNICATE ANYONE by refusing them the Sacraments because they don't agree with your theological take on the Crisis.  If you do so, you violate gravely your sole purpose for having been ordained and/or consecrated.  You are not better than the faithful nor have you deserved Holy Orders.  No man does.  Holy Orders are given not for your glory but for the good of the faithful.  Even you bishops, you have no more authority than anyone else.  You are like auxliaries whose sole purpose is to make available the Sacraments that cannot be had without episcopal consecration (Confirmation, Holy Orders).  I've had enough of your petty, puerile, and arrogant nonsense.  You harm the Church with this idiocy and bring shame upon Traditional Catholics as a whole.  Your petty fighting and turf battles bring shame upon us all.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on the Crisis, and you can try to persuade others of it, but that's as far as it goes.  You can advise the faithful that you believe they risk their souls by going to +Thuc line clergy for Sacraments, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with you.  You can admonish the una cuм folks, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments.  You may reject Feeneyism at the top of your lungs, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to Feeneyites.  You can believe that many NO annulments are invalid, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to those who disagree and who believe their annulments are legitimate.  You have NO AUTHORITY to bind ANYONE'S conscience regarding ANY of these matters that have not been authoritatively settled by the Church.  You come across like a bunch of 4-year-olds "playing Church".  Snap out of this and grow up.  You were not made bishops and priests so that you can walk around relishing how the faithful tip their heads out of respect and call you "Father" or "Your Excellency".  Many of you would be bagging groceries at Walmart had you not been undeservedly selected to receive Holy Orders for the good of the faithful.  Your behavior is a scandal.

    OPEN LETTER TO TRAD CLERGY,
    Laszlo Szijarto
    THIS IS THE SINGLE BEST POST I'VE EVER READ ON A FORUM SINCE BEGINNING IN 2008. 

    I'm cutting this out and pasting it on the fridge. 

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #191 on: May 01, 2022, 09:44:33 PM »
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  • It occurs to me that there is really no difference between the trad clergy and protestants, as 1) neither have actual ecclesiastical authority; 2) both make private judgment their primary principle of operation; and 3) both show forth in their fruits endless divisions into sects.

    Offline trento

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #192 on: May 01, 2022, 09:52:39 PM »
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  • It's precisely what I was calling out with these Traditional priests and clergy themselves.  They elevate their theological opinions to the level of dogma.  Ironically, I agree with the Dimonds regarding most of their material conclusions, but imposing them on others under pain of heresy is crossing the line into schism.  This refusal of communion by Trad clergy based on theological positions is also basically schismatic.

    Note to Trad bishops, priests, and Dimond brothers.  You have NO authority whatsoever.  You are not theologians.  You bishops are not part of the Ecclesia Docens.  You priests are not "pastors" over the faithful who attend your chapels (not parishes).  Nobody with authority in the Church put you in charge of anything.  You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.  Even if you're smart and can spin some good syllogisms, you are NOT teachers (much less theologians) NOR pastors NOR anything.  You cannot bind other people's consciences with your conclusions.  When you get up in the pulpit to preach, you are merely OPINING and your opinion has no more authority than that of any laymen sitting there listening to you.  You are not TEACHING as no one has appointed you to teach.  YOUR SOLE FUNCTION is to be an emergency extraordinary dispenser of the Sacraments to the Catholic faithful.  That's it.  As such, the faithful have a right to receive the Sacraments, and you are obligated to make them available to them.  Apart from obvious direct contradiction of Catholic dogma ("nah, I don't believe in the Holy Trinity" or "I don't believe in the Real Presence" or "I believe that abortion or sodomy are permissible." ... where there's direct open rejection of Church teaching) YOU CANNOT EXCOMMUNICATE ANYONE by refusing them the Sacraments because they don't agree with your theological take on the Crisis.  If you do so, you violate gravely your sole purpose for having been ordained and/or consecrated.  You are not better than the faithful nor have you deserved Holy Orders.  No man does.  Holy Orders are given not for your glory but for the good of the faithful.  Even you bishops, you have no more authority than anyone else.  You are like auxliaries whose sole purpose is to make available the Sacraments that cannot be had without episcopal consecration (Confirmation, Holy Orders).  I've had enough of your petty, puerile, and arrogant nonsense.  You harm the Church with this idiocy and bring shame upon Traditional Catholics as a whole.  Your petty fighting and turf battles bring shame upon us all.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on the Crisis, and you can try to persuade others of it, but that's as far as it goes.  You can advise the faithful that you believe they risk their souls by going to +Thuc line clergy for Sacraments, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with you.  You can admonish the una cuм folks, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments.  You may reject Feeneyism at the top of your lungs, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to Feeneyites.  You can believe that many NO annulments are invalid, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to those who disagree and who believe their annulments are legitimate.  You have NO AUTHORITY to bind ANYONE'S conscience regarding ANY of these matters that have not been authoritatively settled by the Church.  You come across like a bunch of 4-year-olds "playing Church".  Snap out of this and grow up.  You were not made bishops and priests so that you can walk around relishing how the faithful tip their heads out of respect and call you "Father" or "Your Excellency".  Many of you would be bagging groceries at Walmart had you not been undeservedly selected to receive Holy Orders for the good of the faithful.  Your behavior is a scandal.

    OPEN LETTER TO TRAD CLERGY,
    Laszlo Szijarto
    I'm sorry but it may not be so simple. What about groups that purposely cause problems in a chapel, for example, sedevacantists or Feeneyites coming to a SSPX chapel placing their leaflets at the vestibule or distributing them outside the chapel before/after Mass? Similarly this applies too to "una cuм" folks going to a sedevacantist chapel. We know full well each group's theological positions and for the sake of harmony and discipline, I'm of the opinion that the priests have every right to deny the sacraments to troublemakers. If they remain courteous and comes just for the sacraments, then they ought not to be denied. If my many years of experience in Traddieland, I've come across many different people trying to push their opinions upon chapels and priests.

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #193 on: May 01, 2022, 10:30:13 PM »
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  • The bishop's body isn't even cold yet and the Dimonds have to do their victory lap :facepalm:


    I saw they posted something new today and had to click x less than a minute or so in. Disgusting video.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #194 on: May 01, 2022, 10:32:37 PM »
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  • It's precisely what I was calling out with these Traditional priests and clergy themselves.  They elevate their theological opinions to the level of dogma.  Ironically, I agree with the Dimonds regarding most of their material conclusions, but imposing them on others under pain of heresy is crossing the line into schism.  This refusal of communion by Trad clergy based on theological positions is also basically schismatic.

    Note to Trad bishops, priests, and Dimond brothers.  You have NO authority whatsoever.  You are not theologians.  You bishops are not part of the Ecclesia Docens.  You priests are not "pastors" over the faithful who attend your chapels (not parishes).  Nobody with authority in the Church put you in charge of anything.  You basically have the same training as a simple parish priest prior to Vatican II.  Even if you're smart and can spin some good syllogisms, you are NOT teachers (much less theologians) NOR pastors NOR anything.  You cannot bind other people's consciences with your conclusions.  When you get up in the pulpit to preach, you are merely OPINING and your opinion has no more authority than that of any laymen sitting there listening to you.  You are not TEACHING as no one has appointed you to teach.  YOUR SOLE FUNCTION is to be an emergency extraordinary dispenser of the Sacraments to the Catholic faithful.  That's it.  As such, the faithful have a right to receive the Sacraments, and you are obligated to make them available to them.  Apart from obvious direct contradiction of Catholic dogma ("nah, I don't believe in the Holy Trinity" or "I don't believe in the Real Presence" or "I believe that abortion or sodomy are permissible." ... where there's direct open rejection of Church teaching) YOU CANNOT EXCOMMUNICATE ANYONE by refusing them the Sacraments because they don't agree with your theological take on the Crisis.  If you do so, you violate gravely your sole purpose for having been ordained and/or consecrated.  You are not better than the faithful nor have you deserved Holy Orders.  No man does.  Holy Orders are given not for your glory but for the good of the faithful.  Even you bishops, you have no more authority than anyone else.  You are like auxliaries whose sole purpose is to make available the Sacraments that cannot be had without episcopal consecration (Confirmation, Holy Orders).  I've had enough of your petty, puerile, and arrogant nonsense.  You harm the Church with this idiocy and bring shame upon Traditional Catholics as a whole.  Your petty fighting and turf battles bring shame upon us all.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on the Crisis, and you can try to persuade others of it, but that's as far as it goes.  You can advise the faithful that you believe they risk their souls by going to +Thuc line clergy for Sacraments, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments for disagreeing with you.  You can admonish the una cuм folks, but you may not refuse them the Sacraments.  You may reject Feeneyism at the top of your lungs, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to Feeneyites.  You can believe that many NO annulments are invalid, but you may not refuse the Sacraments to those who disagree and who believe their annulments are legitimate.  You have NO AUTHORITY to bind ANYONE'S conscience regarding ANY of these matters that have not been authoritatively settled by the Church.  You come across like a bunch of 4-year-olds "playing Church".  Snap out of this and grow up.  You were not made bishops and priests so that you can walk around relishing how the faithful tip their heads out of respect and call you "Father" or "Your Excellency".  Many of you would be bagging groceries at Walmart had you not been undeservedly selected to receive Holy Orders for the good of the faithful.  Your behavior is a scandal.

    OPEN LETTER TO TRAD CLERGY,
    Laszlo Szijarto
    This should be printed, mailed and translated in multiple languages. Brilliant.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed