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Author Topic: Bp Daniel Dolan has died  (Read 24021 times)

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Offline moneil

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Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2022, 02:09:02 AM »
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    Pontifical???

    Who’s the bishop?

    Odd he isn’t named.
    It would be odd for there not to be pontifical rites for a deceased bishop.  They are perhaps still determining which bishop will preside (or looking for one).


    One doubts that Bishops Clarence Kelly or Markus Ramolla would be candidates.  One thinks of Bishop Mark Pivarunas, CMRI as he consecrated Bishop Dolan, and Bishop Donald Sanborn also comes to mind.  Though they had their differences Bishops Dolan and Sanborn had their collaborations and Bishop Sanborn might see it as an opportunity to expand his "turf" so-to-speak.  There is also Bishop Joseph Selway, for whom Bishop Dolan was a co-consecrator with Bishop Sanborn.  For someone perhaps outside of some of the ecclesiastical politics there is Bishop Robert Neville.

    Bishop Dolan was to ordain four seminarians in the very near future and a bishop will be needed for that.  Going forward St. Gertrude the Great will need to be aligned with a bishop for confirmations and for their holy oils.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #76 on: April 29, 2022, 04:49:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on April 29, 2022, 02:09:02 AM
    It would be odd for there not to be pontifical rites for a deceased bishop.  They are perhaps still determining which bishop will preside (or looking for one).


    One doubts that Bishops Clarence Kelly or Markus Ramolla would be candidates.  One thinks of Bishop Mark Pivarunas, CMRI as he consecrated Bishop Dolan, and Bishop Donald Sanborn also comes to mind.  Though they had their differences Bishops Dolan and Sanborn had their collaborations and Bishop Sanborn might see it as an opportunity to expand his "turf" so-to-speak.  There is also Bishop Joseph Selway, for whom Bishop Dolan was a co-consecrator with Bishop Sanborn.  For someone perhaps outside of some of the ecclesiastical politics there is Bishop Robert Neville.

    Bishop Dolan was to ordain four seminarians in the very near future and a bishop will be needed for that.  Going forward St. Gertrude the Great will need to be aligned with a bishop for confirmations and for their holy oils.
    In my humble opinion as a lay woman, I would think that either Bishop Pivarunas or Bishop Neville might be best.  However, I also think that, especially after Fr Cekada's death, Bishop Dolan had someone in particular in mind and docuмented that. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #77 on: April 29, 2022, 05:49:47 AM »
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    • I would guess Bishop Neville.  Bishop Dolan ended up accusing the sedeprivationists (including Bishop Sanborn) of (at least savoring of) heresy.  I think Bishop Neville is less dogmatic.  When my brother passed away, Bishop Neville sent flowers and his regrets that he couldn't attend the funeral Mass due to his travels (which was at an "una cuм" independent Traditional chapel).  So I got the impression he's a bit less dogmatic.

    Bishop Dolan did recently consecrate that Brazilian bishop, but it would take weeks for him to get up here (as he was quarantined for a long time in Mexico before he could got to Cincinnati to be consecrated.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #78 on: April 29, 2022, 01:12:27 PM »
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    • Someone told me the Brazilian bishop would be taking care of the upcoming ordinations.

    I would imagine if he can't get here in time for the consecrations, Neville or Pivarunas would be the best bets. And probably Neville the better bet, since as far as I'm aware there weren't any unresolved controversies between SGG and him at the time of Dolan's death.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #79 on: April 29, 2022, 04:28:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on April 29, 2022, 01:12:27 PM
    Someone told me the Brazilian bishop would be taking care of the upcoming ordinations.

    I would imagine if he can't get here in time for the consecrations, Neville or Pivarunas would be the best bets. And probably Neville the better bet, since as far as I'm aware there weren't any unresolved controversies between SGG and him at the time of Dolan's death.

    Bishop Neville was more aligned with Bishop Sanborn for a while and was consecrated by Bishop McKenna.  Bishop McKenna used to insist that he wouldn't consecrate or ordain straight sedevacantists, only sedeprivationists.  So I suspect that at least for some time Bishop Neville favored sedeprivationism, and shortly before he passed away Bishop Dolan had attacked the sedeprivationists as practically being heretical (to which Bishop Sanborn objected strenuously).  So, if Bishop Neville is still sedeprivationist, and the rest of the SGG clergy feel the same way about sedeprivatioinism, then I suspect that Bishop Pivarunas might be the more likely candidate.
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    Offline Tedeum

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #80 on: April 29, 2022, 04:47:34 PM »
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    • Bishop Neville is sedevacantist. 

    Bishop Mckenna was sedevacantist. 

    I would hope that Bishop Sanborn and all of the clergy in the remnant church would come together to honor Bishop Dolan. This includes all of the churches across the country. Beyond that, I would be astonished if Bishop Neville took a higher position than Bishop Sanborn in any of this. He is very hesitant to do so in other matters. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #81 on: April 29, 2022, 04:54:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tedeum on April 29, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
    Bishop Neville is sedevacantist.

    Bishop Mckenna was sedevacantist.

    I would hope that Bishop Sanborn and all of the clergy in the remnant church would come together to honor Bishop Dolan. This includes all of the churches across the country. Beyond that, I would be astonished if Bishop Neville took a higher position than Bishop Sanborn in any of this. He is very hesitant to do so in other matters.
    If this was just a year ago, I think Bishop Sanborn would be the most likely candidate.  Unfortunately, the two had, to put it mildly and without getting into it here, a falling out.  It is very sad to me, and I do hope that before Bishop Dolan died they were able to smooth things out somewhat.  Regardless I think that Bishop Sanborn would at least be present at the Mass.
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    Offline Tedeum

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #82 on: April 29, 2022, 05:10:47 PM »
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    • There had been a prior argument between Bishop Sanborn and Bishop Neville, but this had been put aside after Bishop McKenna had died. This is because Bishop Neville understood that if anything happened to him, that he could not leave his parish and the sisters with doors shut between them and the Sacraments. 

    I believe that anyone who has witnessed the lengths that Bishop Dolan had gone to not just continue to provide the sacraments to the families who remained faithful to the church, but the fact that he traveled all over the world like a St. Peter or St. Paul to bring the sacraments to those that were new to the faith or those who had long been without it.... that is a reason for all the higher up clergy across the country to go to West Chester.  

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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #83 on: April 29, 2022, 05:47:15 PM »
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    • All things considered, it seems most fitting for +Sanborn to celebrate the requiem. 
    .
    But as we all know, the relationship between SGG and MHT was broken at the time of +Dolan's death. Sedeprivationists were not allowed to receive Holy Communion at SGG. As far as I'm aware, that's the status quo +Dolan left. The priests at SGG responsible for organizing the funeral have a very difficult task in front of them. It does not strike me as an easy decision to invite Sanborn at all-- if he doesn't celebrate the mass that would be perhaps even stranger than if he did. 

    +Pivarunas might be the celebrant, but Stephen Heiner has been waging war on the CMRI and to most people it appears like a proxy war on behalf of SGG, whose corporate opinion of the CMRI has always been... shaky, I'll say. 

    +Neville seems the most unassuming and uncontroversial candidate, aside from the Brazilian Bishop (who is imagine is the most preferable candidate).
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #84 on: April 29, 2022, 06:01:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tedeum on April 29, 2022, 04:47:34 PM
    Bishop Neville is sedevacantist.

    Bishop Mckenna was sedevacantist.

    Bishop McKenna would vehemently disagree.  He would not consecrate men who were straight sedevacantists, only sedeprivationists.  And Bishop Dolan would disagree.  He denounced the sedeprivationists as practically being heretics in his infamous spat with Bishop Sanborn.  Given that, if Bishop Neville leans sedeprivationists, and the SGG clergy feel the same way, that the position savors of heresy, then they would not likely invite Bishop Neville.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #85 on: April 29, 2022, 06:03:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on April 29, 2022, 05:47:15 PM
    Sedeprivationists were not allowed to receive Holy Communion at SGG.

    This is completely false.

    Quote
    +Pivarunas might be the celebrant, but Stephen Heiner has been waging war on the CMRI and to most people it appears like a proxy war on behalf of SGG

    Wrong again. In fact, Stephen Heiner said he lost various priests on his staff because of his stance against the CMRI. Since the only priests on his show by that point were either Bp. Sanborn's or SGG clergy, and Bp. Sanborn's definitely did not object to Heiner's war, this only leaves SGG clergy. Bp. Sanborn has been telling people privately to avoid the CMRI for years, whereas Bp. Dolan never told anyone such a thing.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #86 on: April 29, 2022, 06:05:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on April 29, 2022, 05:47:15 PM
    Sedeprivationists were not allowed to receive Holy Communion at SGG. As far as I'm aware, that's the status quo +Dolan left.

    I didn't know it had gotten to this point.  In that case, a fortiori, they would not have one of the most famous current sedeprivationists, Bishop Sanborn, offering the Mass.

    As for the Brazilian, I don't know if he could make it there in time given quarantine rules.  At the time of his consecration, Bishop Dolan said he had to spend a long time in Mexico in quarantine before being admitted into the US.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #87 on: April 29, 2022, 06:06:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on April 29, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
    This is completely false.

    So perhaps you two could sort it out.  This would be consistent with Bishop Dolan's having lableled it proximate to heresy.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #88 on: April 29, 2022, 06:11:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on April 29, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
    This is completely false.
    .
    Is it? I had it on the authority of a good friend, an honest man (former contributor to a particular trad outlet, in fact) who had it from a family member it happened to. 

    The last thing I want to do is pass along a rumor, but I had taken it as fact considering my source. 
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bp Daniel Dolan has died
    « Reply #89 on: April 29, 2022, 06:12:58 PM »
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    • Reading through this confusion shows what an utter mess Traditional Catholicism is :facepalm:

    If it wasn't anathema pre-1958, how can these men declare anathema at all?
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