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Author Topic: Bobbing for BOB  (Read 2692 times)

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Bobbing for BOB
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 01:14:45 PM »
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
ON PROMOTION OF FALSE DOCTRINES
QUANTO CONFICIAMUR


That encyclical has nothing to do with the discussion, your posting it shows that you have no evidence, your frustration. That is called an end run, and circular logic. You don't like what someone posts, so you call it a false doctrine by your own cojones, then post QUANTO CONFICIAMUR.

It's obvious to anyone who is honest about this subject of BOD,  that the subject of this tread is that to be saved by baptism of desire, one must have explicit belief in the Incarnation and the Trinity. ALL of you BODers are denying that. You are denying clear dogma.


The Subject of this Thread: BODers say anyone can be saved witout explicit belief in Christ


DOGMA:

 
Quote
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.– But the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity... Therefore let him who wishes to be saved, think thus concerning the Trinity. “But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...the Son of God is God and man...– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”


If that dogma does not mean what it CLEARLY says, then words have no meaning whatsoever. It is a waste of time to talk to people like you, for you have no regard for dogma. Moreover, it does not phase you one iota that not a Father, Saint, Doctor, or Council ever taught that anyone can be saved without belief in the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity.

If you will not hear clear dogma from the Holy Ghost, no one and nothing will convince you that you are wrong. Be prepared though that if this clear dogma does not mean what it clearly says, then NOTHING that is written means what it says! And you might as well go talk to yourself.




BODers deny Dogma (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8)

BODers deny Creeds

 Athanasian Creed
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the Catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

BODers deny St. Thomas Aquinas:

St. Thomas, Summa Theologica: "After grace had been revealed both the learned and simple folk are bound to explicit faith in the mysteries of Christ chiefly as regards those which are observed throughout the Church, and publicly proclaimed, such as the articles which refer to the Incarnation, of which we have spoken above."(Pt.II-II, Q.2, A.7.)

Saint Thomas, Summa Theologica: "And consequently, when once grace had been revealed, all were bound to explicit faith in the mystery of the Trinity." (Pt.II-II, Q.2, A.8.)





Bobbing for BOB
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 02:05:08 PM »
 St. Patrick was born in the late Fourth Century. His Father was Calpurnius, a Briton and a Deacon; his mother, Concess, was a Frank and a close relative of St. Martin of Tours. At sixteen years of age, St. Patrick and many others were kidnapped from the family estate near Bannavem Taburniae (some say this was in western Britain, others say it was in Brittany) by the seven vengeful exiled sons of a king of the Britons. This happened after Rome required that all Briton soldiers under Roman authority go to Rome to defend that city from barbarians, leaving Britain without any army or police, as recorded by St. Bede. Many acts of violence and greed were recorded at that time, which St. Bede called a terrible shame in Britain, which had been Christian a long time.

St. Patrick's father was killed; his sister disappeared.

St. Patrick was sold into slavery in Ireland. His life turned from youthful simplicity into a lesson for all of us. He was a slave, but obeyed his master. He would not depart until given leave to do so.

St. Patrick's escape from slavery was accomplished with miracles. He was visited in a dream by an angel in the form of a bird, Victor, the conqueror, who arranged a miraculous escape. Patrick said that he needed his master's permission to go home, but his master required a ransom of gold as large as his head. The angel told Patrick to follow a boar. The boar's rooting turned up the gold which was to ransom him. The angel took him to the seacoast sixty miles in one day to meet a ship, but instead the lord of the port sold Patrick to others. Then the fee, a set of brazen cauldrons, tormented the betrayer and his family. When they were admiring the cauldrons, their hands stuck to the metal. The lord of the port repented, was forgiven by Patrick. He converted to the will of God, ransomed Patrick from the slavers, and sent Patrick home. He was baptized by Patrick later, when St. Patrick returned. St. Patrick had been a slave six years.

Patrick had a dream that he must preach the Gospel to the Irish, but Victor had told him to seek an education first. He found his education under St. Germanus of Auxerre, who lived close to the southern part of Gaul which is next to the Mediterranean sea. (St. Fiacc does not record other miracles. The town of St. Patrice near Tours in France claims that it was visited by St. Patrick in midwinter. He was tired and cold, and the frost-covered thorn tree he slept under burst into soft warm blooms above him. In December every year until the tree was destroyed the "flowers of St. Patrick" bloomed there. French archaeological and agriculture societies testified to the truth of this phenomenon into this century.)

St. Germanus took his pupil to Britain to save that country from the errors of Pelagius. (The error of Pelagius was a belief that we may attain salvation through our own efforts without God's help, as if the image of God in us were completely separated from the help of the Holy Spirit, the grace of the living God. This heresy is seen today in mistaking the Holy Spirit for the whims or emotions of the mob; "zeitgeist" instead of Holy Spirit.) St. Fiacc records the work of St. Patrick in Britain under St. Germanus to show the development of his saintly leadership, but St. Patrick, in his Confessio, does not mention this, perhaps because the focus of his life's work was in Ireland.

St. Germanus, with a group of priests that included St. Patrick, travelled through Britain convincing people to turn to God, throwing out the false priests of Pelagius known as snakes.


============================================
Tapping me knowledge banks the mention of "seven vengeful exiled sons + Western Britain + Brittany" - is fascinating!

The Romans shipped a British tribe from their lands to Brittany!
Over 6,000 people from a territory which covered SOUTH WALES + Wiltshire + Somerset(Glastonbury) + Dorset etc
These became the 'Bretons' who to this day have never mixed with the Gaul and are fiercely independent (it all fits in)

Some Breton ex-pats reinvaded Britain nearly a thousand years later with the Normans (Normans were all of old viking stock who settled in Normandy - nothing to do with the Gauls = the Viking viciousness, plundering and cruelty that manifested during Norman conquest)

"false priests of Pelagius - known as snakes."
 Patrick rid Ireland of the Snakes!

St. Germanus took his pupil to Britain to save that country from the errors of Pelagius. (The error of Pelagius was a belief that we may attain salvation through our own efforts without God's help, as if the image of God in us were completely separated from the help of the Holy Spirit, the grace of the living God. This heresy is seen today in mistaking the Holy Spirit for the whims or emotions of the mob; "zeitgeist" instead of Holy Spirit.)

http://celticchristianity.org/library/patrick.html


Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Bobbing for BOB
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2014, 03:57:20 PM »
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Ladislaus
So many words just to say, "I do not believe that there is no salvation outside the Church".

What a waste of space.


Again, your comments are rude and condescending.


The truth hurts to those who want no part of it.

All LoT accomplished was to make yet another post rejecting that any sacrament is necessary - and as usual, he took 67 paragraphs to do it.

God forbid he start a post and champion the defense of the necessity of the sacraments. That would be the Catholic thing to do - - do you agree?



Bobbing for BOB
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2014, 04:40:57 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Ladislaus
So many words just to say, "I do not believe that there is no salvation outside the Church".

What a waste of space.


Again, your comments are rude and condescending.




The truth hurts to those who want no part of it.


It is not charitable, and it is not kind.  The action divides, rather than gathers.  It demonstrates arrogance and pride.  What part of brotherly love eludes the self-proclaimed champion of truth?

Quote from: Stubborn

God forbid he start a post and champion the defense of the necessity of the sacraments. That would be the Catholic thing to do - - do you agree?


Is this another snare?  Have you scripted your trap?  What is your purpose in this?

My answer is as follows...
http://www.franciscan-archive.org/scotus/opera/Monte-ST3-61.pdf

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Bobbing for BOB
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2014, 05:29:36 PM »
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Ladislaus
So many words just to say, "I do not believe that there is no salvation outside the Church".

What a waste of space.


Again, your comments are rude and condescending.




The truth hurts to those who want no part of it.


It is not charitable, and it is not kind.  The action divides, rather than gathers.  It demonstrates arrogance and pride.  What part of brotherly love eludes the self-proclaimed champion of truth?


The truth of salvation is always charitable, you will not accept the truth so therefore you claim it hurtful. Same thing the homos claim when told they are sodomites on their way to hell.





Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Stubborn

God forbid he start a post and champion the defense of the necessity of the sacraments. That would be the Catholic thing to do - - do you agree?


Is this another snare?  Have you scripted your trap?  What is your purpose in this?

My answer is as follows...
http://www.franciscan-archive.org/scotus/opera/Monte-ST3-61.pdf



So is that a "yes, I agree" or a "no, I disagree".