Author Topic: Does the Novus Ordo forbid to baptize the children of concubines (Read 2053 times)

poche · « **Reply #15 on:** October 01, 2014, 11:58:18 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Quote from: TKGS
Really? I'm serious. I have discussed the Catholic Faith with people in the Novus Ordo and, unless there is something that is really bothering them about their parish, they could care less about anything the Catholic Church has ever said about faith, doctrine, dogma, or liturgy. I've noted to people that even the General Instructions of the Roman Missal--for the Novus Ordo--specifically prohibits the priest from deviating from the actual word of the Mass except, of course, in the locations that specifically authorize it. They don't care. They've seen papal Masses where all manner of strange antics are done.

I've discussed the problems of the Novus Ordo and changes to unchangeable doctrines at and after Vatican II and am rebuffed because all those holy popes did was to "make the Mass more relatable to the average person." That, by the way, is a direct quote. THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE.

If you have someone in mind in which reason will actually work, I am impressed and hope you can find something.

On the matter of baptizing the children of co-habitating couples, I'm afraid you will not find what you're looking for. The "on paper" criteria for baptism in the Novus Ordo can be found in the New Code of Canon Law:

Quote
Can. 868 §1 For an infant to be baptised lawfully it is required:

1° that the parents, or at least one of them, or the person who lawfully holds their place, give their consent;

2° that there be a well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the catholic religion. If such hope is truly lacking, the baptism is, in accordance with the provisions of particular law, to be deferred and the parents advised of the reason for this.

§2 An infant of catholic parents, indeed even of non-catholic parents, may in danger of death be baptised even if the parents are opposed to it.

Of course, any sentient human being knows that there is not truly a "well-founded hope that the child [of couples living in sin] will [really] be brought up in the catholic [sic] religion," but there are very few sentient Novus Ordo priests, deacons, or bishops (if any) out there, so this rule doesn't apply. After all, they "hope" that hell is empty; and if you can believe there is a credible hope of this, you can credibly hope in anything!

I know what you mean, and it has happened to me a lot of times too, but with these specific ones, there may be some hope. Maybe they won't convert, but at least maybe they will shut up and stop pretending to be the great Defenders of Catholicism.

I read the section on the subject of baptism in the 1917 Code and it didn't say anything about unwed parents.

Was there actually such a law before V-2?

I was told by a traditional Priest this was the case but I never actually saw where the Church taught this, so now I'm wondering where it is.

Unwed parents would fit under the category of fallen away Catholics. Baptism was permitted when provisions were made for the Catholic upbringing of the infant.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2014, 10:16:49 PM »

More specifically, so a pair of Catholics who are living in concubinage can say "Oh yeah we'll get married later, and we will teach our children the Faith", and just with that they will give their child a solemn baptism, while they're still living in concubinage?

poche · « **Reply #17 on:** October 02, 2014, 10:32:13 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

More specifically, so a pair of Catholics who are living in concubinage can say "Oh yeah we'll get married later, and we will teach our children the Faith", and just with that they will give their child a solemn baptism, while they're still living in concubinage?

The Code of 1917 says that in these cases provision must be made for the Catholic education of the child in order for baptism to be administered. This implies but is not limited to the presence of extended family, i.e. a grandparent, brother or sister to one of the parents etc.

poche · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2014, 01:26:57 AM »

from the guidlines for celebrating the sacraments of the diocese of Rochester;

All Parents are to be interviewed before a child may be baptized.
o The purpose of this initial interview is to help parents come to an awareness of the rights
and responsibilities of Baptism, the significance of this event in the faith-life of their
family, and to help them celebrate it in the best possible way. It is an opportunity for
evangelization and catechesis.
o The interview should be in a setting conducive to discussion and exchange, and not over
the phone.
o The interview should discern in the parents at least a minimal effort to live the Christian
life including:
- a well founded belief of the parents’ intention and capacity to raise the child in the
Catholic faith,
- acceptance of the doctrine of the Creed,
- regular participation in the worship of the Church, especially faithful, weekly
attendance at Holy Mass,
- evidence of personal prayer life,
- a concern to show charity to others and
- a life-style influenced by belief in the Lord Jesus and a commitment to the way
of life to which He invites us.
o Serious lack of the above elements would constitute legitimate reason for delaying the
Baptism of the child. “There must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up
in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the Baptism is to be delayed…
after the parents have been advised about the reason.” (Cf. CIC, c. 868, §2). Baptism is
to be deferred, not refused.
o The purpose of the delay is to allow time for the parish priest/administrator/parish
staff to assist the parents to come to a fuller understanding of their own faith-life in the
Church, their responsibilities relative to the faith-life of their child, and their relationship
and responsibility to the parish community.
o It is the obligation of the parish to offer these parents opportunities for adequate
development of their faith.
o A priest/deacon will not baptize a child whose Baptism has been delayed for legitimate
reasons in another parish.
o Some consultation with the pastor/administrator who has delayed the Baptism is in order
to bring the situation to a resolution. Recourse may have to be made to the Chancellor

http://www.dor.org/tasks/sites/home/assets/File/SacramentalGuidelines_online_L.pdf