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Author Topic: The biggest reason I'm not Sede  (Read 191760 times)

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Offline Seraphina

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Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2025, 09:46:38 PM »
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  • Is it possible Bp. Williamson was wrong?  He also said he could not in an absolute manner, as binding in conscience under penalty of mortal sin, forbid attendance at the novus ordo. 
    I haven’t the time to look it up now, but he published a much more recent Eleison Comments saying exactly that. 

    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 06:35:35 AM »
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  • Is it possible Bp. Williamson was wrong?  He also said he could not in an absolute manner, as binding in conscience under penalty of mortal sin, forbid attendance at the novus ordo.
    I haven’t the time to look it up now, but he published a much more recent Eleison Comments saying exactly that.
    In his golden years he was right.


    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #62 on: Yesterday at 06:37:22 AM »
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  • Interesting.  Fr. Cekada remarks that the Abp allowed some of his priests to hold the sede position.  Cekada says they took the Abp's sedevacantist-like comments to their logical conclusion.  Cekada doesn't go so far as to accuse the Abp of holding the sede position, though.
     
    https://youtu.be/DqgcCujfQF0?si=lbA55xoWQXk3krAm
    I am siding with the three bishops on this one.

    Offline Bonafidecat

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #63 on: Yesterday at 05:23:05 PM »
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  • I am siding with the three bishops on this one.
    I don't feel the need to side with anyone here.  Did the bishops deny that the Abp ever used sede-like language, as demonstrated by Fr. Cekada?  If not, then I don't see a conflict.  Fr. Cekada never accuses the Abp of embracing sedevacantism, but he does bring the receipts showing the Abp making sede-like accusations.   
    "Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood!" (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori) 


    "There is only one Christian faith, that is: Catholic." (St. Bridget of Sweden)

    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 09:22:04 PM »
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  • I don't feel the need to side with anyone here.  Did the bishops deny that the Abp ever used sede-like language, as demonstrated by Fr. Cekada?  If not, then I don't see a conflict.  Fr. Cekada never accuses the Abp of embracing sedevacantism, but he does bring the receipts showing the Abp making sede-like accusations. 
    Father Cekada was expelled by Archbishop Lefebvre. 

    While Lefebvre occasionally used strong language condemning Modernist Romes errors he never denied the papacy or broke communion with the Church. 





    Offline Michaelknoxville

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 09:26:28 PM »
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  • Good post.
    I see bitterness and anger with these people.
    Its very sad
    You can see that in trads too. I understand their frustrations and sympathize but you end up becoming a Pharisee at a certain point and forget it’s not necessarily about the church but the souls being lost because of the distractions. 

    Offline Freind

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #66 on: Today at 05:49:15 PM »
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  • Is because "sedevacantism" is divisive. It's adding a COMPLETELY UN-NECESSARY division to the world of Traditional Catholicism.

    In other words, I'm not against individual "sedevacantists" for their opinion. Their opinion doesn't make me angry. The whole idea of "sedevacantism" as an identity DOES make me angry, however. "Traditional Catholic" should be enough. The idea that "sedevacantists" need to worship only with other "sedevacantists" at special "sedevacantist" chapels.

    I just happened to be cleaning up my email subscription list on the Web after some years, and tested whether this login was valid. It is! I am posting here because I know it is not good etiquette to respond to old threads. This one interests me.

    I totally reject the word "sedevacantism". It really is not an ISM at all. It is really just "Catholicism"; that ISM which includes the fact that a pope can become a heretic and automatically cease to be pope. Just because someone believes a fact has happened within Catholicism doesn't create a brand new ISM.


    Offline songbird

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #67 on: Today at 06:37:15 PM »
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  • Friend: thank you for your post.  Yes, a Pope can go wrong in his pontificate.  Pope Leo XIII and cardinal Manning went over this: is it possible for a pope to go wrong in his pontificate.  Did Our Lady not say to Sister Lucia, 1931, Pope XI did not heed God's request to consecrate Russia?  She did refer to pope and then said, Pope Pius XI would be like King Louis XIV, dethroned, for not consecrating France to the Sacred Heart. And he was beheaded.  Without the Pope the Church was beheaded.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #68 on: Today at 09:21:30 PM »
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  • Let's put it this way:

    Even if I were someday convinced that the See is vacant, I would nevertheless reject "sedevacantism" wholeheartedly. I would avoid Sedevacantist chapels for their sectarianism. I would reject the sedevacantist identity/movement, and adhere instead to the "plain vanilla" Traditional Movement. I would continue to treat the Pope question as a personal opinion, etc.

    I would continue to consider the same things to be important:

    Tridentine Mass
    Catholic Faith as it was taught, believed, and practiced before Vatican II
    Training of the priest, his attitude towards Vatican II and the new Conciliar religion
    Validity of his ordination (including the bishop who ordained him)

    Those are the only things the "sedevacantists" are doing right -- in other words, the Traditional Movement. They get no extra cred for their rejection of the recent popes. Because it has solved nothing, and done nothing positive for the Faithful or the Church.
    Good thread.

    For the sake of exposure of the topic to new viewers of CI, how about a thread about the biggest reason(s) you are not an Indulter?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Online MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #69 on: Today at 10:48:08 PM »
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  • A small part of what helped me into sedevecanstism was the continuous railing against it.  It was, and is, the last great taboo.  Like Michael Matt said in a video a while back, "Sedevacantism just isn't strategic.  Do you know how many people we would alienate...?"  lol  It just ain't a good strategy boys.  It just ain't popular enough.