Author Topic: Bishop Fellay: The SSPX Will Not Recognize the Second Vatican Council (Read 2812 times)

Augstine Baker · « **on:** September 08, 2011, 11:03:35 AM »

Bishop Fellay: The SSPX Will Not Recognize the Second Vatican Council
Edit: things are coming along. It should be obvious to most observers that the SSPX has been far more obedient to the Holy Father than most of the German Bishops.

There was a similar report on kathnet, but it seems to have disappeared.

Deutsche Bischöfe üben Druck auf den Papst aus: The German Bishops are Pressuring the Pope

France. The Society of St. Pius X will not recognize the Second Vatican Council. Bishop Bernard Fellay said this at a brief address in the Northwest French city of Saint-Malo. Msgr Fellay insists that the Faith would not be set in play. The Bishop criticized namely, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg and Bishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller of Regensburg. Both are said to have intrigued against the Priestly ordinations of the Society. Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos is supposed to have said by telephone, that the Society can have permission for the ordinations, if they ask for them. In another telephone conversation Cardinal Castrillon said that the German Bishops are putting pressure on the Pope.

Link to kreuz, blurb...

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:07:19 AM »

I wonder if the Pope may be willing to accept them in, as is, with no doctrinal concessions or equivocations on the Society's part. If so, it would be a great victory for the Society and Tradition.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:14:24 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

I wonder if the Pope may be willing to accept them in, as is, with no doctrinal concessions or equivocations on the Society's part. If so, it would be a great victory for the Society and Tradition.

++Hoyos seems ok with the SSPX. He said that all they need to do for approval of their ordinations is make a phone call.

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2011/09/bishop-fellay-sspx-will-not-recognize.html

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #3 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:23:06 AM »

How old is this article? Although it is great if Hoyos is on board, Hoyos is out the door and has no power.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:33:17 AM »

If you read Robert Burnham's book "The Machiavellians" he goes through a list of the campaign promises of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

A very fiscally conservative, almost Republican sounding platform.

Unfortunately, I think Bishop Fellay has consolidated his grip on the SSPX in the manner of one of Machiavelli's protagonists.

Undoubtedly the time is not yet ripe for joining with Rome. All such endeavors that depend on lulling people to sleep require patience.

The SSPX has all the appearances of being on the path to modernization.

You can almost always tell the tendency of an organization by looking at who it is they criticize most harshly - they save their vitriol and launch their lawsuits at those who criticize the Pope and the hierarchy with words that echo those of Archbishop Lefebvre.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:34:50 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

How old is this article? Although it is great if Hoyos is on board, Hoyos is out the door and has no power.

Good question. Sounds like someone from kreuz.net was talking on the phone to ++Hoyos and the discussion was related to this event.

Probably nlt Weds, assuming Bishop Fellay was in St-Malo to give such a brief talk.

Kreuz is pretty dependable.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2011, 11:59:18 AM »

Tele,

If you were B. Fellay and Rome offered the Society faculties and "regularization" and demanded no concessions at all, would you not take it?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:12:10 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Tele,

If you were B. Fellay and Rome offered the Society faculties and "regularization" and demanded no concessions at all, would you not take it?

Do you really believe that stuff about "no concessions"?

Perhaps they really mean no public concessions?

Once the SSPX is "regularized" it will remain that way. Which means its direction will ultimately be under the control of modernists.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #8 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:04:52 PM »

If, in the future, the Pope demands anything of them contrary to Tradition, they simply refuse. If they get "re-sanctioned" so be it. I think Rome would know this going in and give them autonomy for fear of a second "schism".

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:14:31 PM »

The problem is that once you make an agreement, each "issue" is weighed against the value of being approved by Rome.

Is _____ worth splitting with Rome again?

Each incident is more inclined to be forgiven, rather than opt to go down that path of separation from Rome which everyone involved is far too familiar with.

Most people involved have experienced nothing other than ostracism from Rome for their whole Catholic (or priestly) lives.

The problem is this: We no longer have Archbishop Lefebvre among us. He was holy, wise and had great experience as a missionary. He knew what was important and what wasn't, and was prepared to make hard decisions.

If Bishop Williamson were in charge of the SSPX, I wouldn't be worried.

But, on the contrary, he is being RUN OUT of the SSPX -- which worries me greatly for the future and integrity of the SSPX.

Caminus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:47:11 PM »

That's not really a concern for Roman's are so tepid, they tolerate the worst rebels and heretics, both individually and collectively. The SSPX will continue what it has been doing for the last four decades.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:12:43 PM »

Matthew,

Valid point. Until Rome returns to Tradition the situation will not be perfect.

However, the flip side of your point is that the Pope will have to ask himself the same question.

"Is _____ worth the SSPX splitting off again?"

And the Pope would be the ONLY one with the power to ask the Society to do anything.

I think if they offer regularization with no concessions, the Society would have to take it. If for nothing else than to help free scrupulous souls trapped in the NO to escape to the Society. Granted the Society would have to be vigilant, but I think the Pope's desire to bring them in coupled with the Society's proven record of refusing to follow Conciliarism sets a cear line that the Pope will be reticent to cross.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:19:30 PM »

It is also important to remember that ABL simply wanted the Pope to allow "the experiment of Tradition" to take place in the Church and allow it to exist in the Church. If the Pope offers this to the SSPX with no concessions, I don't see how ABL would have ever turned it down, especially since he signed an agreement with less favorable terms once, though it never finalized due to Rome playing games with the dates.

John Grace · « **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:35:37 PM »

As Bishop Williamson stated in "Greek Gifts" III

Quote

When all Archbishop Lefebvre's efforts had failed in the negotiations of May 1988 to obtain from then Cardinal Ratzinger a secure place for the Faith within the mainstream Church, he said some famous words : "Your Eminence, even were you to give us everything we wanted, still we would have to refuse, because we are working to christianise society, whereas you are working to de-christianise it. Collaboration between us is not possible."

John Grace · « **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:39:15 PM »

Posted somewhere else online.

Quote

Q: Many Catholics who began to fight alongside the Archbishop years ago now feel inclined to unite forces with a seemingly more conservative Rome by allying themselves with organizations with a more “regular status” within the Church.

Tissier de Mallerais: Yes, many losses. Because of lack of principles, unfaithfulness to the fight of the Fraternity, seeking compromises, wishing peace, desiring the victory before the time foreseen by God. These poor people (priests, religious, lay people) are liberals and pragmatics. Seduced by the smiles of the people in the Vatican, I mean the prelates of the Roman Curia. People that were tired by the long, long combat for Faith: “Forty years, that’s enough!” But this one will last 30 more years. So do not cease, do not seek “reconciliation,” but fight on!

The Angelus - July 2008 - Interview with Bp Tissier de Mallerais

ETA another humdinger:

Q: What do you think would be Archbishop Lefebvre’s assessment of the crisis as things stand in 2008?

Tissier de Mallerais: He would denounce not only liberalism — that was the case with Paul VI — but modernism, which is the case of Benedict XVI: a true modernist with the whole theory of up-to-date modernism! It is so serious that I cannot express my horror. I keep silent. So Archbishop Lefebvre would shout: “You heretics, you pervert the Faith!”