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Author Topic: The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant  (Read 6823 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2011, 09:50:57 PM »
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  • Yeah, but is that crystal-clear, dispute-ending quote ex cathedra?  :wink:
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #16 on: April 17, 2011, 09:53:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    The fact remains, if this is the true Pope, why not go to an Indult?  Are you too good for the Indult Catholics, you have to have your own special little group?  Pray tell, now that the Latin Mass has been "freed" by Ratzinger, what possible justification is there for the existence of the SSPX?


    Raoul, I think you know the answer to this. The Society's justification is that the Mass is the tip of the iceberg.

    BTW, I wish you would engage rather than hide. I do think a dialogue would be worthwhile, to risk sounding like an ecuмenist.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #17 on: April 17, 2011, 09:54:44 PM »
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  • SJB,

    That situation is entirely distinguishable from the present one.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #18 on: April 17, 2011, 09:56:33 PM »
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  • The situation is different; the basic principles involved are the same.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #19 on: April 17, 2011, 09:58:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    The Society's justification is that the Mass is the tip of the iceberg.


    If nothing has been authoritatively taught, and no actual commands have been issued, what more could they desire or expect?

    "We demand that you rescind all of those non-orders...Further, we demand that you address those things that you never really taught in the first place..."
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline SJB

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #20 on: April 17, 2011, 10:08:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    SJB,

    That situation is entirely distinguishable from the present one.


    Yes, of course, but that's not why I quoted it. The example is an application of the principle, which must be applied in all cases.


    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #21 on: April 17, 2011, 10:24:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    SJB,

    That situation is entirely distinguishable from the present one.


    Yes, of course, but that's not why I quoted it. The example is an application of the principle, which must be applied in all cases.



    What principle? That we can privately judge a pope accepted by the universal Church?

    Offline SJB

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #22 on: April 18, 2011, 07:00:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    SJB,

    That situation is entirely distinguishable from the present one.


    Yes, of course, but that's not why I quoted it. The example is an application of the principle, which must be applied in all cases.


    What principle? That we can privately judge a pope accepted by the universal Church?


    Stevus, NOBODY can judge the pope … neither a private individual nor the legitimate hierarchy of the Church.

    Reread Franzelin. I don't expect you to make any progress though, because your attitude is not one that is conducive to learning anything.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #23 on: April 18, 2011, 10:32:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Reread Franzelin. I don't expect you to make any progress though, because your attitude is not one that is conducive to learning anything.


    Franzelin is saying that Catholics were excused subjectively for following anti-popes in good faith during a time when the universal Church was in complete legitimate confusion over which of three rival claimants were Pope.

    As your quite by Franzelin begins, these same Catholics believe in the perpetual existance of a human being in the apostolic see, at the time it was just not clear which man than was.

    This is totally different from a Catholic today believing VCI's claim that Peter will have pepetual successors is crap and that the current Pope recognized by the universal Church is not actually Pope.

    The first position was obviously reasonable due to the circuмstance. The second position is patently absurd. I'll let Ferrara explain....

    Quote
    A Patent Absurdity
          That the premises, and thus the conclusions, are demonstrably false will be shown later. But even without such a demonstration, it must be stressed at the outset that the sedevacantist thesis is plainly untenable, because when all is said and done the thesis comes down to the following claim: that since 1958 the entire membership of the Catholic Church has been adhering to a series of impostor popes and a hierarchy of impostor bishops, except a few sedevacantists who alone have noticed what is "manifest" about these ecclesiastics — that they are all formal heretics. For the Church’s entire membership to adhere for nearly half a century to five consecutive heretical, impostor popes and an impostor episcopacy would make a mockery of the promises of Christ to His Church that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18) and that He will be with His Church "all days unto the consummation of the world" (Matt. 28:20). Without the Pope at its head and bishops in communion with him, the visible Church would cease to exist, and Christ would have been made a liar.

          Granted, it may well be that the Church is ultimately reduced to a very tiny remnant by the time Antichrist appears and asserts himself. But that remnant will still have a Pope at its head and some number of bishops in communion with him. Otherwise that remnant would not be the Church, but a headless and diffuse "body of believers," just as the Protestants imagine the Church to be. Quite simply, if there is no Peter, there is no Church. As Pope Leo XIII taught in his monumental encyclical on the Church, Satis Cognitum: "It is clear that by the will and command of God the Church rests upon St. Peter, just as a building rests on its foundation. Now the proper nature of a foundation is to be a principle of cohesion for the various parts of the building. It must be the necessary condition of stability and strength. Remove it and the whole building falls."3


    Offline SJB

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #24 on: April 18, 2011, 04:41:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevus
    As your quite by Franzelin begins, these same Catholics believe in the perpetual existance of a human being in the apostolic see, at the time it was just not clear which man than was.


    Read it again stevie:

    Quote from: Franzelin
    ... Catholics were split into two and then three obediences, as they were then called, while all acknowledged and revered the divine rights of the Apostolic See; nevertheless, not acknowledging the right of the one seated in the Apostolic See, from invincible ignorance of the lawful succession [i.e. as to which claimant was the lawful successor] and thus adhering either to no one, or to a pseudo-pontiff. Among these, even saints such as St. Vincent Ferrer for a time, and his brother Boniface, a Carthusian Prior, were implicated in material schism."




    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Geremia

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    The Wanderer Attacks The Remnant
    « Reply #25 on: August 08, 2015, 06:58:19 PM »
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  • The following book, written by a priest and Ph.D. in physics from Temple University, is a more erudite presentation of what amounts to the central theses of Sungenis's Galileo Was Wrong:

    Fr. Victor Philip Warkulwiz, MSS, PhD, Universe without Space and Time: An Essay on Principles for Relational Cosmology Drawn from Catholic Tradition and Empirical Science (Bensalem, PA: Albertus Magnus Apostolate for Religion and Science, Missionary Priests of the Blessed Sacrament, 2013).

    Also:
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre