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The very existence of creation is the sign. A miracle suspends the laws of nature.

Yes.  I know.  I've posted that several times now.

I'm talking about evolutionary development.  If one postulates that evolutionary development occurred, then there is disagreement among theists as to whether one can expect to observe that type of suspension of the laws of nature in speciation and morphological transition.  

I'm not aware that the Church has ever said it's heretical to say that one doesn't expect to observe a miracle in the fossil record of speciation events.  

I think you misunderstand what a miracle truly is and why it sometimes occurs. The created natural world isn't a "miracle" in the sense I think you mean it.

I think you misunderstand what a miracle truly is and why it sometimes occurs. The created natural world isn't a "miracle" in the sense I think you mean it.

You and I are talking at cross purposes.  From my perspective, you repeat to me, what I have just posted.

Either we need to quit, or start fresh.  I don't care.  This will start up again soon enough anyway.

Apparently not, but I'm not going to spend $4.95 to read to see if I understood the abstract as well as I think.

So, what do we do?  Discuss other examples of chromosomal fusion?  Talk about why you want it to be chromosomal fusion instead of something else?  

Do something different altogether?  

Humans are so so different from primates, not just in the shape and bilogical functions of our bodies

But we're not so different from Cro Magnons.

And they are not so different from Homo Erectus.

And they are not so different from Homo Habilis.


you get the drift.

but even more so in our deep intellects, and spirituality.

Yes.  But this is why the Church (Humani Generis 1950) has drawn a bright line between the evolution of the body and reception of the soul direct from God.

We believe we are ensouled, and therefore are different in kind, not just degree, from any animals.  This does not, however, mean that our bodies are not very much like animal bodies.  

One Chromosomal fusion is the primary difference between human and chimpanzee chromosomes.  

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Humans are so so different from primates, not just in the shape and bilogical functions of our bodies

But we're not so different from Cro Magnons.

And they are not so different from Homo Erectus.

And they are not so different from Homo Habilis.


you get the drift.

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but even more so in our deep intellects, and spirituality.

Yes.  But this is why the Church (Humani Generis 1950) has drawn a bright line between the evolution of the body and reception of the soul direct from God.

We believe we are ensouled, and therefore are different in kind, not just degree, from any animals.  This does not, however, mean that our bodies are not very much like animal bodies.  

One Chromosomal fusion is the primary difference between human and chimpanzee chromosomes.  

I would just have this to say, Cro Magnons would appear to just be human beings, as would neanderthals.  Homo Habilis has the cranial capacity of a gorilla at best.  At worst, it would be in the chimpanzee/orangutan range.  

As far as Homo Erectus, I find this history of its "discovery" from Salvemariaregina to be quite alarming:

Peking Man: Dr. Davidson Black, in 1914, had helped put together the Piltdown skull. In 1926 while Piltdown Man still reigned in England, Black and Chardin were in China looking for fossils.

In 1927 a molar tooth was found. Black pronounced that it was part ape, part human, and Peking Man was born. The press welcomed a new ancestor based on one tooth. Next, in 1929, something of a skull was found. Teilhard at first reported that it "manifestly resembles the great apes closely." Experts agreed that it was a baboon or large monkey.

The theology of man.(Image at right: Teilhard contemplates the "theology of man" in this "skull" -- real or fake.) Dr. Black wanted his ape-man, however. He made a model of a skull, falsely described by Chardin as a cast, and gave it a brain capacity of 960 c.c. -- far in excess of the skull earlier described by Chardin.

Later the two announced that they had found "traces of fire" amongst more fossils; that Peking Man walked upright, lived in caves, etc. Evidence was twisted and suppressed to fabricate Peking Man; the press cooperated, and the world fell for it.

Then the eminent anthropologists, Professor Breuil and Marcellin Boule were invited to the site. Breuil found that the "traces of fire" were actually the remains of industrial furnaces run by humans. Boule found the same thing; he added that the skulls were of monkeys eaten by the humans. Near the end of 1933, human skulls were unearthed at the site, supporting the findings of Breuil and Boule. But their voices were scarcely heard. The world was systematically deceived, and Peking Man grew stronger on the diet of deceit. So also did Dr. Black's stature. By 1934, he had received the honor of Fellow of the Royal Society of London. But in March of that year, he was found dead in his laboratory, among the human fossils.

Dr. Franz Weidenreich (Image at left: Dr. Franz Weidenreich) Teilhard reported that human remains had been found, but, without going to investigate the site, he dismissed them as being of a later date. When Dr. Franz Weidenreich took charge, he proceeded to make his own model of Peking Man. He used parts of four different skull pieces, then had a sculptress mold them into a female skull, with a whopping 1200 c.c. brain capacity!

In 1937, Teilhard contradicted his earlier report and published an article which conveyed that no human remains had been found. Instead he spoke of a "great male" ape-man to refute Boule's view that real men were needed to work the industry.

But why not examine the actual fossils to get to the truth? This cannot be done, because every fossil bone originally claimed to be of Peking Man has disappeared. All that is left are the imaginative models. No one knows what happened to the fossils, but Father Patrick O'Connell, who investigated the affair, wrote: "The skulls were therefore destroyed, in order to remove the evidence of fraud on a large scale."

Java Man: (Image at left: a helmeted Chardin helps out at Java.) In 1891, Dr. Eugene Dubois of Holland gave up his career and went to Java to search for the missing link. Later he presented to the world his Pithecanthropus Erectus, or Java Man. Java Man became a hero, talked about in the same way as were Pitt and Napoleon. Popular histories published detailed portraits of him. G. K. Chesterton commented that no uninformed person looking at his carefully lined face would imagine that this was a portrait of a thigh-bone, a few teeth, and a fragment of cranium. How did it happen? In 1895, when Dubois returned to Europe, he showed to an International Congress of zoologists what he had found in a river bed in Java: a skullcap and a tooth, which both appeared to belong to an ape. He also showed them something that had been found a year later and about 50 feet distant, namely, a thigh bone that seemed to be human.

Dubois insisted they belonged together and scientists let him say so, because it was believed that man had only recently migrated to Java. So, assuming there had been no humans in Java, they allowed the ape's skullcap to belong to the human thigh bone, and there was the "missing link" which they wanted to find.

However, Dr. Dubois had not told the whole truth. He had not told the most important part of the story -- he had also found two human skulls in the same stratum as the skullcap. To have told this would have spoiled his case because those human skulls showed that real human beings did live in Java at the same time as the supposed ape-men. And that would have meant that there was no need to link the thigh bone with the skullcap 50 feet distant.

In addition to the exploits of Dubois, there were two later expeditions to Java. The Selenka expedition, 1907-8, was conducted with strict scientific discipline. It found evidence indicating human existence in the same stratum as the supposed ape-man. It found no evidence supporting the Dubois ape-man. These findings were a setback to the "missing link." Then around 1921, Dubois revealed his secret about the human skulls. Something had to be done to save Java Man; so a third expedition was begun.

In 1931, G. H. R. von Koenigswald was sent to search the area. He found a number of human skulls, but no "missing links." Because of the Great Depression, von Koenigswald lost his funding. But in 1936, through Teilhard de Chardin's influence, he was granted considerable funds through the Carnegie Foundation in America. One writer observed: "One has the impression of a vast web, of which Teilhard held in part the threads, where he served as liaison agent, or better still, as chief of staff, able, like a magician, to make American money flow, or at least to channel it for the greatest good of palaentology."

Thus von Koenigswald returned to the quest. By 1938 he had found fragments of jawbones, some teeth, fragments of skulls and a skullcap. From these he produced Java Man II, III and IV. But these fossils had the same characteristics as the Dubois Java Man I. Several experts judged them to be "very similar to those of chimpanzees and gibbons."

By this time, Dubois was repudiating his own Java Man. He declared that, after long study, he was of the opinion that "we are here concerned with a gigantic gibbon." Ironically, now that he was trying to make amends, he was dismissed as unreliable. He was not allowed to kill off his own Java Man, which came to be enshrined (together with Peking Man) as "Homo Erectus," the beginning of man.

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When the Biblical Commission of 1909 gave halting permission for exegetes to discuss the age of the earth and the real duration of the seven days of Creation recounted in Genesis, the commissioners were unaware of the fact that the so-called scientific literature at the time was hypothesizing entirely on cooked data.  If they had known the truth, that is, if the MASK had been adequately removed from Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ as previous popes had announced doing (but they nonetheless were not quite capable of unmasking this particular aspect) then they would never have backed off the way they did.  

We could have had a very different twentieth century, IOW.

But apparently it was to be given to the world that this Big Lie would not be exposed for the lie that it is.  

But now, it has been exposed.  Only now, too many scientists are rather committed to a system that presumes the fables are reliable.  They're afraid of losing their 'credibility' -- which translates to honor bestowed by other men.  You know, like getting elected "man of the year" and that sort of thing.

It has been exposed and perhaps, just maybe, the new movie, The Principle, will have some chapter on the exposure.  If so, it's going to be a little sad that the Biblical Commission of 1909 didn't get a chance to see The Principle before they cut loose with their ANSWERS to Questions.  But if they HAD seen the movie, it would have been a miracle, because there was no such thing as 'movies' like this in 1909.  

If the Commission had seen this movie, they would have thought that they had seen a phantasm or a dream, because motion pictures in 1909 had no synchronized sound.


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When the Biblical Commission of 1909 gave halting permission for exegetes to discuss the age of the earth and the real duration of the seven days of Creation recounted in Genesis, the commissioners were unaware of the fact that the so-called scientific literature at the time was hypothesizing entirely on cooked data.  If they had known the truth, that is, if the MASK had been adequately removed from Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ as previous popes had announced doing (but they nonetheless were not quite capable of unmasking this particular aspect) then they would never have backed off the way they did.  

We could have had a very different twentieth century, IOW.

But apparently it was to be given to the world that this Big Lie would not be exposed for the lie that it is.  

But now, it has been exposed.  Only now, too many scientists are rather committed to a system that presumes the fables are reliable.  They're afraid of losing their 'credibility' -- which translates to honor bestowed by other men.  You know, like getting elected "man of the year" and that sort of thing.

It has been exposed and perhaps, just maybe, the new movie, The Principle, will have some chapter on the exposure.  If so, it's going to be a little sad that the Biblical Commission of 1909 didn't get a chance to see The Principle before they cut loose with their ANSWERS to Questions.  But if they HAD seen the movie, it would have been a miracle, because there was no such thing as 'movies' like this in 1909.  

If the Commission had seen this movie, they would have thought that they had seen a phantasm or a dream, because motion pictures in 1909 had no synchronized sound.


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It would appear that the zionists bluffed and the Pontifical Commission folded.  They are crafty little devils.  Same can be said of the Church backing off of the copernican theory, after being given evidence which could support either geocentrism or heliocentrism; not exclusively heliocentrism which was posited to them at the time that they began to back off.

That being said, I do not think that it is right to demonize people like Icterus, for being fooled by the same slight of hand, which caused the Church to back off, but never to reverse its stance on geocentrism and creation.  The problem, as I see it, is that people like Icterus find it difficult to accept the overwhelming evidence that a conspiracy of immense proportion is under way.  He said that what causes him difficulty in believing in cօռspιʀαcιҽs, is that ultimately, they would require everyone to be involved in them, and he does not see that as a possibility.  However, just as he was tricked by the zionists into accepting their "data" and "evidence", without looking into it to see if it truly was credible, the Church was also fooled into backing off, and I would say that many real scientists have never questioned the veritability of the foundational evidence required to even propose evolution as a likely possibility.  With regards to heliocentrism, the same people never analysed the theory in enough detail to recognize the metaphysical(not scientific) choices which were made necessarily, in order to further there theorization.  I think that Icterus is a real Catholic, who has been fooled by very crafty zionists.  Far from requiring everyone to be "in on it", this conspiracy required nothing more than for individuals of unquestionable intellect and training, to be fooled into believing the reality which was presented to them, without questioning the origin of the data, and if they did question it, to keep their mouths shut in order to avoid certain professional failure, brought on by the ostracization of the mob of believers in the new modernistic belief system.  Icterus is one of those who still believes and I do not fault him for it.  I too, once believed in evolution and heliocentrism.  I once thought that the novus ordo was "regular" church, and that traditionalism was a form of protestantism, ie not Catholic.  I learned the Truth by seeking it.  That is what Icterus is doing.  And I know beyond the shadow of a doubt, that if he continues to seek and to pray, that the Holy Ghost will lead him towards Truth.

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

Keep in mind that the Protocols were recorded in the late 19th century, meaning that they were either written by prophetic frauds who knew the future of what the next 100 years would hold for mankind, or they are an authentic blueprint of what a clandestine group of evil, God-hating geniuses, planned to do in the next 100 years, and then did it.

Protocol II

1. It is indispensable for our purpose that wars, so far as possible, should not result in territorial gains: war will thus be brought on to the economic ground, where the nations will not fail to perceive in the assistance we give the strength of our predominance, and this state of things will put both sides at the mercy of our international agentur; which possesses millions of eyes ever on the watch and unhampered by any limitations whatsoever. Our international rights will then wipe out national rights, in the proper sense of right, and will rule the nations precisely as the civil law of States rules the relations of their subjects among themselves.

2. The administrators, whom we shall choose from among the public, with strict regard to their capacities for servile obedience, will not be persons trained in the arts of government, and will therefore easily become pawns in our game in the hands of men of learning and genius who will be their advisers, specialists bred and reared from early childhood to rule the affairs of the whole world. As is well known to you, these specialists of ours have been drawing to fit them for rule the information they need from our political plans from the lessons of history, from observations made of the events of every moment as it passes. The goyim are not guided by practical use of unprejudiced historical observation, but by theoretical routine without any critical regard for consequent results. We need not, therefore, take any account of them - let them amuse themselves until the hour strikes, or live on hopes of new forms of enterprising pastime, or on the memories of all they have enjoyed. For them let that play the principal part which we have persuaded them to accept as the dictates of science (theory). It is with this object in view that we are constantly, by means of our press, arousing a blind confidence in these theories. The intellectuals of the goyim will puff themselves up with their knowledge and without any logical verification of them will put into effect all the information available from science, which our agentur specialists have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want.

DESTRUCTIVE EDUCATION

3. Do not suppose for a moment that these statements are empty words: think carefully of the successes we arranged for Darwinism, Marxism, Nietzsche-ism. To us Jews, at any rate, it should be plain to see what a disintegrating importance these directives have had upon the minds of the goyim.

4. It is indispensable for us to take account of the thoughts, characters, tendencies of the nations in order to avoid making slips in the political and in the direction of administrative affairs. The triumph of our system of which the component parts of the machinery may be variously disposed according to the temperament of the peoples met on our way, will fail of success if the practical application of it be not based upon a summing up of the lessons of the past in the light of the present.

5. In the hands of the States of to-day there is a great force that creates the movement of thought in the people, and that is the Press. The part played by the Press is to keep pointing our requirements supposed to be indispensable, to give voice to the complaints of the people, to express and to create discontent. It is in the Press that the triumph of freedom of speech finds its incarnation. But the goyim States have not known how to make use of this force; and it has fallen into our hands. Through the Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the gold in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand goyim.