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Author Topic: Beware of Bitter Zeal  (Read 1997 times)

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Offline Caminus

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Beware of Bitter Zeal
« on: August 02, 2010, 04:01:39 PM »
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  • Some Catholics read about the zeal of the Saints and try to imitate their militancy, but only end up being being bitter and uncharitable in the process.  Why is this?  It is because they do not possess the same degree of the Gifts of the Holy Ghost by which the Saints operated.  They haven't the sufficient spirit of prayer to discern what is the result of true zeal as motivated by a very high degree of charity as opposed to a sort of bitterness which only mocks real virtue.  Instead of Charity, infused Counsel and Wisdom, the dispositions which animate the imitator are in reality anger, frustration and even hatred all converging to become the source of a new vice: bitter zeal, the daughters being back-biting and reviling.      

    So when St. Vincent Ferrer or St. Anthony of Padua strike fear into the hearts of their hearers because their words had a certain unction of the Holy Ghost and thus endowed with power, the ignorant imitator sounds like shrill, clanging noise who only moves people to irritation and contempt.  


    Offline Arborman

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 07:48:15 PM »
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  • Also I think many people expect more from themselves than what God does.
    “God does not require of us extraordinary things.”
    – St John Vianney
    To Jesus thru Mary, for the greater glory of God.


    Offline umblehay anmay

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 11:40:48 PM »
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  • I think tthat invincible obstinance (as opposed to the idea of invincible ignorance) brings out extreme and even bitter zeal in even the best of saintly men.  

    Offline Trinity

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 02:55:11 PM »
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  • So where would you class the "militant Jerome" of Prof. Plinio?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 03:03:48 PM »
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  •   I don't have the graces he had. I respect him. It was his mission, he was a great Saint already advanced in virtues.
       I won't mock him or call him a heretic albigenist, clavinist as it a blasphemy, neither will I try to assume that I can wage war with demons and enemies of the church as he did.
      Some must be fiery saints, some must be little flowers, all must hate sin and heresy (and love the sinner.)

    see:   :reading:  :incense:  :chef:  :baby: :farmer: all types are needed in the church.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 03:25:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    see:   :reading:  :incense:  :chef:  :baby: :farmer: all types are needed in the church.


    Tis true, tis true!  LOL!
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Trinity

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 03:55:02 PM »
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  • I'm not so sure that's an accurate picture of St. Jerome, Spouse.   I think the professor may have tweaked him a bit.  That's why I asked Caminus what he thought.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline Caminus

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 10:33:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    So where would you class the "militant Jerome" of Prof. Plinio?


    Where can I find his description?  


    Offline Trinity

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 10:35:42 AM »
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  • I gave you the link in Caminus.  Here it is again.  Thank you.

    http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=12180&f=4&min=0&num=20
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline Caminus

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 11:22:03 AM »
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  • Quote
    Since the end of the 18th century, the Revolution infiltrated the Church with Romanticism. It changed this harmonic conviviance of the many different vocations and spiritual pathways in the Church to impose just one sentimental model. This Romanticism influenced piety, hagiography - the presentation of the lives of the Saints - art, and even moral and dogmatic doctrine.

    According to this new dominating fashion, everything that did not correspond to its sweet, positive, merciful and soft spirit was set aside, “forgotten” or condemned. These criteria entered the seminaries, clergy, and manuals of piety, forming several generations of Catholics who were unaware of the previous richness of the Church. Thus they were raised in an environment of antipathy to militancy and turned only to this romantic religiosity.

    Those great Saints, such as St. Jerome, with his counsels to Eustochium to be proud of her virginity and to be convinced that she is more than married ladies, were also “forgotten” or even hated, as you say, accused of being against humility. It is a product of this false piety.

    Just as Romanticism was the cultural movement that prepared society for the French Revolution, so this romantic piety prepared the way for Progressivism in the Church and for Vatican II with its ecuмenism, pacifism and horror of Catholic militancy. This "sweet" religiosity is much more akin to Progressivism than to the Catholic Church as she always was. This explains why you feel as if it were a different religion.


    I think the first part is okay, but without giving an example in the second, it's difficult to know what this person is talking about.  I agree about the myopic tendency to rework the spiritual physiognomy of the Saints today, which is not to emphasize the wrong virtue, but to reinterpret their actions in a purely humanistic way.  It is this naturalism which destroys their supernatural character.  Romanticism, or a sentimental affectation for that which stirs human emotion, is the daughter of naturalism, but who is to say that TIA is not themselves reinterpreting the piety of the 18th century for their own purposes, for the Saints were indeed the sweetest, kindest and meekest of all men.  But in the face of evil they were as terrible as an army in battle array.  I think their overly-broad, sweeping generalization regarding the origin and nature of this phenomenon is so vague as to be virtually meaningless, thus they can associate it with anything or nothing at all, in this case, it was the foundation for all the evils of the modern reforms.  

    Regarding the militancy of the Saints, the same holds regarding my above observation.  What is termed 'militancy' was in reference to the manifestation of virtue, principally fortitude, in the face of evil.  We must be careful not to inject our own, peculiar, too human understanding of these notions, othewise we unwittingly do the very thing which we decry, that is, to mischaracterize the Saints.  

    Each Saint possessed all the virtues in an heroic degree, but they were known for one or two that stood out above the rest.  This is the normal way of grace and how God chooses to manifest His goodness in his most beloved children.  Each one expressed a particular characteristic or trait of Jesus Chirst, just as each religious order has a particular note, without destroying an essential unity with the rest.      

    Offline Trinity

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 11:35:57 AM »
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  • Very good.  Thank you.  Now do you think that St. Louis de Montfort wrote the Fiery Prayer?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Caminus

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    Beware of Bitter Zeal
    « Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 11:41:29 AM »
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  • I have no idea.  :confused1:

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 11:53:13 AM »
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  • It's on that same thread, only down a few posts.  I have been trying and trying to verify it as St.  Louis' work, but simply cannot.  I've read some of his other prayers and they don't sound the same.

    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.