Author Topic: Bergys dangerous talk (Read 807 times)

Incredulous · « **on:** September 22, 2013, 12:17:33 AM »

Now that the long Roman summer recess is over, Francis' daily homilies and weekly general audiences have resumed, and this means there is no predicting what he will say, for anything is possible when Mr. Bergoglio speaks freely.

In his Wednesday audience on September 11, 2013, the man the world believes to be the Pope of the Catholic Church gave a "catechesis" on the Church as Mother of all Christians -- and managed to insult both the Church, who is the Immaculate Bride of Christ, and the Virgin Mary, Our Lord's Immaculate Mother:

"The Church and the Virgin Mary are both mothers. And what can be said about the Church can also be said about the Virgin, and what can be said about the Virgin can also be said about the Church"

Francis begins his instruction, before concluding the first paragraph thus:

"Do we love the Church as we do our own mothers, accepting her with all her flaws? Everyone has flaws, but when these are mentioned we try to cover them up! Do we help make her more beautiful and more genuine?

Instead of drawing a beautiful analogy to the Blessed Virgin Mary to explain how the Church is likewise spotless and untainted, Jorge Bergoglio instead accuses the Bride of Christ of being sullied with "defects" or "flaws" ("difetti") and, having pointed out that what can be said about the Church can equally be said about the Virgin Mary, makes people draw the necessary conclusion that just as the Church has flaws, so does the Blessed Mother.

Blasphemy! Heresy!

Bergoglio is once again using his pulpit to attack and deny Roman Catholic truth. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception -- proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854 -- is well known, but what often gets neglected is the dogma of the Church's own perfect sanctity, which implies her flawlessness. In the ancient Apostles' Creed we profess our belief in "the holy Catholic Church" (Denz. 1), and in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, too, we profess that we believe in "one holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" (Denz. 86).

The following quotes from various Catholic sources demonstrate the holiness of the Church, that, despite the sinfulness of many of her members, she herself is without any flaws (underlining added for emphasis):

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it: That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy, and without blemish."

(Ephesians 5:25-27)

"Theologically, it is certain that the Church must be holy in every respect."

(Fr. Sylvester Berry, The Church of Christ: An Apologetic and Dogmatic Treatise [Herder, 1927], p. 105)

"For, to the Catholic Church alone belong all those many and marvelous things which have been divinely arranged for the evident credibility of the Christian faith. But, even the Church by itself, because of its marvelous propagation, its exceptional holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in all good works; because of its catholic unity and invincible stability, is a very great and perpetual motive of credibility, and an incontestable witness of its own divine mission."

([First] Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius, Chp. 3; Denz. 1794)

"...although one of the Church's marks is holiness because she is holy in her Founder, holy in her teaching, holy in the sanctity of a great many of her members, nonetheless she has also within her bosom many members who are not holy, who afflict and persecute and misjudge her."

(Pope Pius IX, Allocution to Pilgrims from Savoy, Sept. 15, 1876; excerpted in Papal Teachings: The Church, p. 246)

"'She is a garden enclosed, my sister, my spouse, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed' [Cant 4:12]. These words of Holy Scripture are applied, according to the Fathers, to the Catholic Church, the immaculate spouse of Christ...."

(Pope Leo XIII, Decretal Hortus Conclusus, Dec. 15, 1881; excerpted in Papal Teachings: The Church, p. 246)

"In fact, only a miracle of that divine power could preserve the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, from blemish in the holiness of Her doctrine, law, and end in the midst of the flood of corruption and lapses of her members."

(Pope St. Pius X, Encyclical Editae Saepe, par. 8)

"Now all this array of priceless educational treasures which We have barely touched upon, is so truly a property of the Church as to form her very substance, since she is the mystical body of Christ, the immaculate spouse of Christ, and consequently a most admirable mother and an incomparable and perfect teacher."
(Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Divini Illius Magistri, par. 101)

"...the Church, although human faults can be found in her, is always the Church of Christ, and, as such, true and infallible in preserving and transmitting the sacred deposit of faith, that is, of truth and heavenly grace; and she is holy, in fact, the very same 'Church of God, which He purchased with his blood' [Acts 20:28]. God is always great and wonderful in his works, but He is especially to be considered so where his greatest charity is shown forth, where his most abundant redemption in our regard is made perfect, namely in the Catholic Church."

(Pope Pius XII, Allocution to the Students of the Gregorianum, Oct. 17, 1953; excerpted in Papal Teachings: The Church, p. 695)

"Certainly the loving Mother is spotless in the Sacraments, by which she gives birth to and nourishes her children; in the faith which she has always preserved inviolate; in her sacred laws imposed on all; in the evangelical counsels which she recommends; in those heavenly gifts and extraordinary graces through which, with inexhaustible fecundity, she generates hosts of martyrs, virgins and confessors. But it cannot be laid to her charge if some members fall, weak or wounded."

(Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis, par. 66)

Notice especially Pope Pius XII's last sentence: that the sinfulness of individual Church members "cannot be laid to her charge." So much for Bergoglio's "flawed" church! No, the Church herself is spotless because she is the Bride of Christ, whose mission is to lead souls to Heaven (cf. Apoc 21:27), who alone possesses all the means of sanctification, the true doctrine, and salutary discipline, and who alone has been given by God power over the treasury of grace (see Mt 16:18; 18:18) and the right and authority to preach the Gospel (see Jn 20:21; Lk 10:16).

This is the constant and infallible teaching of the Church about herself. For Francis to say the Church has "flaws" is inexcusable, because, mind you, this is a "Pope" speaking at an official general audience with the express purpose of teaching the faithful. In other words, this isn't some off-the-cuff slip-up by an ill-prepared high school teacher, which could perhaps be excused. If Francis simply meant that the Church has members who are sinners, then he should have stated precisely that and taken great care to point out that no one is allowed to conclude from this that the Church herself could be flawed, defective, or fail, lest the faithful be led into dangerous error.

But of course Bergoglio is a Modernist and has no genuine care for souls and does not care about teaching sound doctrine. What a contrast to the real Popes, such as Pius VI, who denounced innovators who "sought to hide the subtleties of their tortuous maneuvers by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith that is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation" (Bull Auctorem Fidei, 1794).

Likewise, Pope Clement XIII pointed out the seriousness of doctrinal error veiled in partial truth, warning that "diabolical error, when it has artfully colored its lies, easily clothes itself in the likeness of truth while very brief additions or changes corrupt the meaning of expressions; and confession, which usually works salvation, sometimes, with a slight change, inches toward death" (Encyclical In Dominico Agro [1761], par. 2).

Once again we see that Novus Ordo theology is at odds with true Roman Catholic teaching. And though it is obvious that the Vatican II Sect is flawed indeed, and in that sense Francis right, nevertheless he and all his hearers identify this sect with the Roman Catholic Church, so the immense damage done to souls is just the same.

SOURCES:1. Vatican Insider

2. Vatican website (Italian)

bowler · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2013, 05:36:57 AM »

Since John XXIII the modernists have focused totally on the "sinful" Church, so much so, that few know that the Church is Holy, Spotless, and without blemish. They have been focusing on the sinful Church as if it was the only Church, and they make no distinctions. My parents priest, a old conservative Novus Ordo priests even gave a sermon about the sinful church. A relative of mine gave the priest a lesson after mass.

I think that this speech by Bergolio is a good opportunity for CI members to send emails to relatives showing what Bergolio said, and showing all of the quotes that you posted, and leave it at that. Not explain anything, let them sort it out. They don't listen to anything we say anyways, so, let the saints tell them.

Abbot Marmion called the Holy Catholic Church "the holy and invisible society of the souls that share by grace in Christ's Divine Sonship and form the Kingdom He won by His Blood". That is the Church to which people in a state of mortal sin do not belong. (Mortal sinners can cleanse themselves of their iniquities by the sacrament of penance and return to the sinless Church).The Church is spotless, not one soul of good will leaves the Church, the Ark in the flood, outside of which there is no salvation.

Christ the Life of the Soul, by Abbot D Columba Marmion 1925

Chapter 5- THE CHURCH, THE MYSTICAL BODY OF CHRIST (pg 93)

"to procure this glory is the Church. Christ comes on earth to create and constitute the Church; it is the work to which all His existence converges, and He confirms it by His Passion and Death. His love for His Father led Jesus Christ to the mountain of Calvary but it was there to form the Church, and make of her, by purifying her in His Divine Blood, a spotless and immaculate Bride: Dilexit Ecclesiam et seipsum tradidit pro ea ut illam sanctificaret (Ephes 5:25-26).

This is what St. Paul tells us. Let us then see what this Church is, of which the name occurs so often under the great Apostle's pen as to be inseparable from that of Christ.

We may consider the Church in two ways: first as a visible, hierarchical society, founded by Christ to continue His sanctifying mission here below; she appears thus, as a living organism. But this point of view is not the only one; to have a complete idea of the Church, we must regard her, as the holy and invisible society of the souls that share by grace in Christ's Divine Sonship, and form the Kingdom He won by His Blood. That is what St. Paul calls the body of Christ, not of course, His physical body, but His mystical body. It is on this second point of view we shall principally dwell: we must not, however, pass over the first in silence.

It is true that the invisible Church, or the soul of the Church, is more important than the visible Church, but, in the normal economy of Christianity, it is only by union with the visible society that souls have participation in the possessions and privileges of the invisible kingdom of Christ*. END"

[* this means that one must be a baptized member of the visible Church to have participation in the possessions and privileges of the invisible kingdom of Christ (Bowler)]

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2013, 06:41:07 AM »

No person with just a modicuм of a Sensus Catholicus could ever even come close to insinuating that Our Lady, Queen of Heaven and Earth, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of graces and Mother to our Savior had 'flaws.' Conclusion? Dude ain't Catholic.

V. Blessed be the womb of the Virgin Mary, which bore the Son of the Eternal Father.

R. And blessed be the paps which gave suck to Christ our Lord.

2Vermont · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2013, 08:23:40 AM »

I'm at a point where I could easily believe that just about everything he says is heretical. However, with this, was he speaking of the Church as in the Church or as in all of those who make up the Church? If it was the former, I totally agree with you all. If it was the latter, then perhaps he was talking about the fact that the Church is made up of sinners. In that sense, yes, "the Church" has flaws.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2013, 11:17:20 AM »

The Blessed Mother was born without sin and had no flaws.

Our modern Church today however is born with sin and has many flaws.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2013, 11:48:24 AM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

The Blessed Mother was born without sin and had no flaws.

Our modern Church today however is born with sin and has many flaws.

If by modern Church you mean the Conciliar Church, which is distinguishable and different than the Catholic Church, yes. But the Catholic Church has no flaws, and to insinuate, suggest, imply and certainly to declare that She has flaws is a blasphemy against the Benevolence of God, as the Church is the Bride and Mystical body of Christ, preserved and created for our sanctification. It is the ordinary tool by which God draws us near to Him. How can God draw us near to Him with a broken tool?

Furthermore:

Quote from: The Gospel of St Luke, Chapter 11

And which of you, if he ask his father bread, will he give him a stone? or a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he reach him a scorpion? [13] If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from heaven give the good Spirit to them that ask him?