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Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II  (Read 45418 times)

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I wouldn't spent too much time arguing with Stubborn.  I've done it in the past but learned from my mistake.  He makes principles up out of thin air and dismisses all theological texts cited as the entirely unreliable theologians of the (at first just 20th -- and then later 19th and 20th) centuries.  He contradicts himself on a regular basis, redefines well-known theological terms to suit his needs, and has absolutely no comprehension of distinctions.  It's an exercise in futility.  I've stopped debating him.  It's pointless.  Stubborn (as is the logical consequence of R&R) has become his own rule of faith and has invented his own religion.
So a heretic, then. Got it.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
I wouldn't spent too much time arguing with Stubborn.  I've done it in the past but learned from my mistake.  He makes principles up out of thin air and dismisses all theological texts cited as the entirely unreliable theologians of the (at first just 20th -- and then later 19th and 20th) centuries.  He contradicts himself on a regular basis, redefines well-known theological terms to suit his needs, and has absolutely no comprehension of distinctions.  It's an exercise in futility.  I've stopped debating him.  It's pointless.  Stubborn (as is the logical consequence of R&R) has become his own rule of faith and has invented his own religion.
Hot air ^^
Yes, the highest principle in the Church to sedes necessarily registers as being made up. Aren't you special!

I guess we'll never know where the phrase: "Excommunicated from the Church" comes from.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Hot air ^^
Yes, the highest principle in the Church to sedes necessarily registers as being made up. Aren't you special!

I guess we'll never know where the phrase: "Excommunicated from the Church" comes from.

Your "highest principle," namely that Tradition is the proximate rule and interpreter of faith (something also promoted by that Drew character) is nothing more than a slight variation of Protestantism, the difference being that the Prots only have one source of Revelation (Scripture) and the Trad-Prots have two (Scripture and Tradition).

As with Scripture, the issue with Tradition is its interpretation and application, and there's only one authority permitted to interpret Tradition, the living Magisterium.  As St. Thomas said, by rejecting the Magisterium as the proximate rule for interpretation, you effectively make yourself the rule.  You replace the Magisterium with your own private judgment.  If Stubborn decides something is Traditional, then it's Traditional.  This effectively makes you your own doctrinal authority.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Your "highest principle," namely that Tradition is the proximate rule and interpreter of faith (something also promoted by that Drew character) is nothing more than a slight variation of Protestantism, the difference being that the Prots only have one source of Revelation (Scripture) and the Trad-Prots have two (Scripture and Tradition).

As with Scripture, the issue with Tradition is its interpretation and application, and there's only one authority permitted to interpret Tradition, the living Magisterium.  As St. Thomas said, by rejecting the Magisterium as the proximate rule for interpretation, you effectively make yourself the rule.  You replace the Magisterium with your own private judgment.  If Stubborn decides something is Traditional, then it's Traditional.  This effectively makes you your own doctrinal authority.
Sede reasoning^^

Go ahead and be obedient to man regardless of our requirement of obedience to God and see how that works out for you.

Not sure what it is you don't get, apparently this contradicts your brand of sedeism, but the Church's Magisterium is not the pope. 

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Go ahead and be obedient to man ...

:facepalm: You sound more like a Prot with every post.