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Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II  (Read 45566 times)

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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
augustineeens provided the following refutation of your misunderstanding of the teaching, and it was dismissed and ridiculed because it comes from MHFM.

https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/cardinal-elects-excommunicated-pope/
Yes, that link starts out with the error that promotes sedeism, which is that heretics, without any distinction whatsoever, are not members of the Church. Have you ever seen this dogma, or are you just going to take the Dimond Fools' word for it.

That's right up there with heretical popes breaking Divine Law - - -but no one knows which Divine Law, do they now?



All I ask before you stomp off, all I ask is for you to answer the question:
So knowing that only Catholics can use the sacrament of confession, can Catholics heretics guilty of the mortal sin of heresy and want to repent go to confession or not?
Yes. I stated that already. And I never denied it actually.

What heretical teaching to I hold? Post it or retract it.
That heretics can hold office in the Church and that they are inside the Church. I don't need to repost the papal teachings on this.
And you're a schismatic because you profess Francis as Pope but do not hold communion with him outside of lip-service and the Te Igitur.


Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Yes. I stated that already. And I never denied it actually.
If yes, then you have got to admit that Catholics who fell into the state of the mortal sin of heresy are indeed Catholic. If you do not admit this, then you admit that the Church permits non-Catholics to use our sacraments.
There is no other alternative.

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That heretics can hold office in the Church and that they are inside the Church. I don't need to repost the papal teachings on this.
And you're a schismatic because you profess Francis as Pope but do not hold communion with him outside of lip-service and the Te Igitur.
But you just said that you agree with the Church that Catholics who fall into heresy are Catholic because they can use the sacrament of penance to be absolved from their sin - I agree with this as well.

I hold Francis as a pope who preaches heresy, same as I would hold an angel from heaven to be an angel, even tho he preached a different Gospel. This makes me schismatic now?

Yes, that link starts out with the error that promotes sedeism, which is that heretics, without any distinction whatsoever, are not members of the Church. Have you ever seen this dogma, or are you just going to take the Dimond Fools' word for it.

That's right up there with heretical popes breaking Divine Law - - -but no one knows which Divine Law, do they now?


Quote
Council of Florence (1442: DS 1351): "It firmly believes, professes and preaches, that none who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jєωs and heretics and schismatics, can partake of eternal life, but they will go into eternal fire... unless before the end of life they will have been joined to it [the Church] and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body has such force that only for those who remain in it are the sacraments of the Church profitable for salvation;"
^Literally what I've been saying


To quote again:
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St. Celestine I, Council of Ephesus, 431:
“… ALL HERETICS corrupt the true expressions of the Holy Spirit with their own evil minds and they draw down on their own heads an inextinguishable flame.

Pope Innocent IV, First Council of Lyons, 1245:
The civil law declares that those are to be regarded as heretics, and ought to be subject to the sentences issued against them, who even on slight evidence are found to have strayed from the judgment and path of the Catholic religion.

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum #13:
"can it be lawful for anyone to reject any one of those truths without by the very fact falling into heresy? without separating himself from the Church? – without repudiating in one sweeping act the whole of Christian teaching? For such is the nature of faith that nothing can be more absurd than to accept some things and reject others."
[...]
"he who dissents even in one point from divinely revealed truth absolutely rejects all faith, since he thereby refuses to honour God as the supreme truth and the formal motive of faith."

Canon 1325.2: "After the reception of baptism, if anyone, retaining the name Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts something to be believed from the truth of divine and Catholic faith, [such a one is] a heretic;"

Pope Paul IV, cuм ex Apostolatus Officio, #6:
6. In addition, if ever at any time it should appear that any Bishop (even one acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate), or any Cardinal of said Roman Church, even a Legate as previously stated, or even a Roman Pontiff prior to his promotion or elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy, then
his promotion or elevation, even if it be uncontested and carried out by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, invalid, and void;



If yes, then you have got to admit that Catholics who fell into the state of the mortal sin of heresy are indeed Catholic. If you do not admit this, then you admit that the Church permits non-Catholics to use our sacraments.
There is no other alternative.
But you just said that you agree with the Church that Catholics who fall into heresy are Catholic because they can use the sacrament of penance to be absolved from their sin - I agree with this as well.

I hold Francis as a pope who preaches heresy, same as I would hold an angel from heaven to be an angel, even tho he preached a different Gospel. This makes me schismatic now?
Are you nuts? Here is a quote from Pope Pius XII:
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Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 23), June 29, 1943:  “For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”



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If you do not admit this, then you admit that the Church permits non-Catholics to use our sacraments.
The Church "allows" pagans to receive water baptism, does that prove pagans are Catholics?