Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II (Read 45756 times)

DigitalLogos · « **Reply #140 on:** June 17, 2022, 10:46:23 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on June 17, 2022, 10:13:16 PM

Well, the problem is that I do believe that these scoundrels here would in fact submit to a genuine pope and would stand to be corrected by him. That's typically the litmus test for pertinacity in heresy. This crisis is confusing, and their brains are mangled into this twisted mess. There's no doubt some significant bad will here, and they do blaspheme Holy Mother Church and promote a heretical ecclesiology, so that is not to completely let them off the hook. But there's a monumental difference between that and pertinacious formal heresy. They've constructed for themselves this completely imaginary theological system they believe properly characterizes this crisis. They don't deny anything they know to be dogma, and likely wouldn't, but they're coming perilously close to not having anything that actually resembles the Catholic faith.

I'll go one further and say that they don't have the Catholic faith. And I say this because their entire position revolves around maintaining the erroneous position of Lefebvre, who only held the position that he did because things weren't as clear then as they are now. They're Lefebvrists, not Catholics. Which is why they won't admit any of the clear proof you can throw at them about heresy and the loss of office, or the indefectibility of the Church, because they don't have the faith. They will do everything possible to wriggle out of admitting that the See is vacant, up to the point of calling the Spotless Bride of Christ a whore, just so they have a name to pop into the Te Igitur at their Sunday Mass.

augustineeens · « **Reply #141 on:** June 17, 2022, 11:09:27 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 17, 2022, 10:04:36 PM

“Impediments of divine law.”

Now you’re openly making stuff up.

Do I need to quote the canonist Morato again? “Heretics and schismatics are barred from the Supreme Pontificate by the divine law itself, because, although by divine law they are not considered incapable of participating in certain types of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, nevertheless, they must certainly be regarded as excluded from occupying the throne of the Apostolic See…”

Stubborn · « **Reply #142 on:** June 18, 2022, 04:31:29 AM »

Quote from: DigitalLogos on June 17, 2022, 08:19:07 PM

They won't read the refutation because it comes from MHFM. That much has already been made clear earlier in the thread when I posted clear refutations of the heretical R&R position on Vatican II by MFHM and NOW, and they were dismissed because of the source, rather than the arguments.

I read it, the whole refutation is based off the very first item, which is itself error.... "As we’ve already shown, it’s a dogma that 1) heretics are not members of the Church;"

Stubborn · « **Reply #143 on:** June 18, 2022, 04:39:51 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 17, 2022, 08:17:11 PM

We’re you aware cuм Ex was abrogated (more than once)?

Quote from: DigitalLogos on June 17, 2022, 08:21:21 PM
Are you going to provide a source or just make a statement?

"We desire also that this docuмent of Ours be read in the presence of all in the first Congregations
usually held after the death of the Pontiff, as above (no. 12 a); again after entry into the
Conclave, as above (no. 51); likewise when anyone is raised to the dignity of the purple, after
having pledged a solemn oath to scrupulously preserve the things that have been decreed in the
present Constitution.

Notwithstanding any whatsoever Apostolic Constitutions and Orders to the contrary issued by
Our Predecessor Roman Pontiffs, which, to the extent it is necessary, We declare each and every
one to be abrogated, as above, and even other matters worthy of individual and special mention
and derogation.

Therefore, let it be permitted to no man to weaken this page of Our constitution, ordinance,
abrogation, commandment, binding order, warning, prohibition, precept, and will, or to go
against it by a rash undertaking. Moreover, if any one presumes to attempt this, let him know that
he will incur for it the anger of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.
Given in Rome, at St. Peter’s, A.D. 1945, on the eighth day of December, on the feast of the
Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in the seventh year of Our Pontificate." - Pope Pius XII, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis

Stubborn · « **Reply #144 on:** June 18, 2022, 04:48:31 AM »

Quote from: augustineeens on June 17, 2022, 08:24:14 PM

If that's the case, then we are dealing with bad-willed heretics who receive not the love of the truth... they are no different to the liberals who will dismiss evidence against the vaccine because the source isn't from the mainstream media. In this case it's bad-willed false trads who only accept Eleison comments or the Angelus or Fr. Wathen's sermons as a valid source...

Catholics who are bad willed heretics are guilty of mortal sin because they deny a dogma or dogmas. To be forgiven of this sin of heresy, the penitent must go to confession and receive absolution from the priest for this sin. Depending on the culpability and gravity of the sin, the nature of this sin makes this more unlikely to happen than with other mortal sins.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II (Read 45756 times)

DigitalLogos

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augustineeens

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Stubborn

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Stubborn

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Stubborn

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