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Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II  (Read 45570 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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How about this case? It's a true story that happened recently.....

A traditional Catholic husband and wife (14 kids) who practiced the traditional faith for the last 50 years or so, apparently lost their ever loving minds and  decided to "convert" to the Russian Orthodox church. Before RO priests and prelates, a ceremony was held where they took solemn vows renouncing their baptism and everything Catholic that disagreed with RO, then they were baptized and welcomed into the RO.


It was with only the best of intentions that these poor fools left the Church. They believe they've left the Church because that's what they did. They believe that they are now RO so they are no longer Catholic. Believing that they finally found the truth, they decided to purposely and certainly place themselves outside of the Church.

Now, while Holy Mother the Church teaches us to avoid these Apostate, schismatic heretics, *She* calls on them to return to the Church, that is, She calls on them to get to confession and amend their lives.

The process for this is so simple that all they need to do is to enter the confessional, just the same as they did regularly for the past 50 years. Not only *can* they do this, they must do it for their hope of salvation. This simple, beautiful option which can only be partaken of by Catholics, remains open to these Apostate, schismatic heretics for as long as they live because what they did was commit mortal sin - even though they had good intentions.

The nature of the sin they committed makes it unlikely that they will ever make use of the sacrament of penance and return to a life of faith within the Church, but as long as they live (which being in their upper 70s may not be much longer) there's hope because with God, all things are possible. Please pray for them.

Offline Ladislaus

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The first part, that says: "all baptized persons are parts or members of the true Church," is incomplete, therefore not the whole truth which results in being cause for confusion.

Very simply, baptized prot babies are members, but only until the age of reason. If they never become Catholic after the age of reason, then they remain outside of the Church unless or until they do become Catholic.

The bolded is only true if apostates / heretics had the Catholic faith before falling into the sin of heresy.

The distinction is, *having the Catholic faith*, because this is what makes one Catholic. To lose the faith by whatever means is itself a sin because to lose the faith is to not believe in the Church, which is Christ, see John 16:9 (" And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of justice, and of judgment. [9]Of sin: because they believed not in me").

So now you've made up your own position.  Claiming that baptized Prot babies cease to be members of the Church contradicts the once-Catholic-always-Catholic-by-virtue-of-the-Baptismal-character position you've been promoting all this time.



The process for this is so simple that all they need to do is to enter the confessional, just the same as they did regularly for the past 50 years. Not only *can* they do this, they must do it for their hope of salvation. This simple, beautiful option which can only be partaken of by Catholics, remains open to these Apostate, schismatic heretics for as long as they live because what they did was commit mortal sin - even though they had good intentions.



If they formally communicated to the local ordinary of their rejection of the Catholic membership, they can't just simply walk into any confessional. They would need to formally be received by the bishop. Of course, outside of a state of emergency.

Offline Stubborn

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So now you've made up your own position.  Claiming that baptized Prot babies cease to be members of the Church contradicts the once-Catholic-always-Catholic-by-virtue-of-the-Baptismal-character position you've been promoting all this time.
I posted what the Church has always taught. Please work on your reading comprehension, I did not claim that prot babies cease to be members of the Church. 

Keep stretching tho, keep that chair empty at all costs.


Offline Ladislaus

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I posted what the Church has always taught. Please work on your reading comprehension, I did not claim that prot babies cease to be members of the Church.

Keep stretching tho, keep that chair empty at all costs.

Church has always taught my foot.  You made this up out of whole-cloth.  You put a couple of heretofore-unknown conditions on membership by Baptism that was held by Cajetan.