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Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II  (Read 45573 times)

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Offline augustineeens

Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2022, 10:41:21 PM »
Quote from: bodeens on June 20, 2022, 10:36:10 PM
In case someone tries to play smart penance in the non VII sect form includes release from excom etc
Get that, Stubborn? A heretic has to be reconciled with the Church, and be released from their excommunication (latae sententiae), before they even go to confession. Dead members who are in mortal sin do not need to do this, because they have never left the Church!
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #231 on: June 20, 2022, 10:52:10 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 19, 2022, 03:43:05 PM
Manifest Heretics in the external forum are required to make an abjuration of heresy before they can be admitted back to the Sacraments. Those who commit heresy in the internal forum (e.g. occult heretics) can simply go to Confession.  In terms of membership in the Church, there's a huge difference  between a manifest heretic and an occult heretic.  Occult heresy, as per St. Robert Bellarmine, does not sever from the Church, whereas manifest heresy does.

Right, I mentioned this yesterday (in bold).  Those who commit the sin of heresy secretly are not required to abjure, as far as I know, as if ... let's say someone embraced a heretical notion in his mind only and never manifested it.

Manifest heresy severs from the body of the Church, and it requires a manifest retraction / abjuration of the same in order for membership in the Church to be visibly restored.
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Offline augustineeens

Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #232 on: June 20, 2022, 11:18:05 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 20, 2022, 10:52:10 PM
Right, I mentioned this yesterday (in bold).  Those who commit the sin of heresy secretly are not required to abjure, as far as I know, as if ... let's say someone embraced a heretical notion in his mind only and never manifested it.

Manifest heresy severs from the body of the Church, and it requires a manifest retraction / abjuration of the same in order for membership in the Church to be visibly restored.
I would disagree.. the Magisterium teaches that heretics are not in the Church and has never made the exception for occult heretics. That also would destroy the Unity of the Church. 
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2022, 04:58:21 AM »
Quote from: augustineeens on June 20, 2022, 10:03:56 PM
Right... so you hold that a Catholic who becomes a heretic, is still a Catholic. So then you would logically have to conclude that Martin Luther remained a Catholic when he became a heretic, he's just a "Catholic in mortal sin" according to you, right? Clearly, you reject the Unity of the Church. It's a dogma that the Church is one in Faith. You reject that. You are not a Catholic.
Have you figured out which of the Divine Laws is being broken by having a heretical pope yet? Or will you just keep ignoring the question? 

"Thou art a priest forever according to the Order of Melchizedek." Ever heard of this?
Luther stood before God as a Catholic priest in the state of (as far as we know) mortal sin. The sin you refer to is a sin against the faith, i.e. the sin of heresy.

The character of the sacrament of baptism is just as indelible, just as ineradicable as that of Holy Orders. One who is not a Catholic cannot receive the Sacraments.  The Catholic who has fallen into the sin of heresy can receive the Sacrament of Penance.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2022, 04:59:34 AM »
Quote from: augustineeens on June 20, 2022, 10:06:09 PM
When has the Church ever taught that a heretic is a Catholic? You can't quote one source from the Magisterium. You just make it up as you go to fit your heretical ecclesiology.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22), June 29, 1943, addressed to the universal Church: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith…”

Does Francis profess the true Faith? Did Martin Luther profess the true Faith? According to your deranged and heretical mind, they are simply "Catholics who have fallen into the mortal sin of heresy". No, you heretic, they do not profess the true Faith, they are outside the Church, they are not Catholic. You can't accept this basic truth, because you are of bad-will and on the road to hell.
Which of the Divine Laws is being broken by having a heretical pope?

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