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Author Topic: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II  (Read 45616 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #185 on: June 19, 2022, 06:27:33 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on June 19, 2022, 05:14:46 PM
You're just desperate to maintain a vacant chair.

No, I'm just capable of reading English.  You're the one who butchers Pius XII to say the exact opposite of what he teaches ... in a desperate attempt to save your heretical brand of R&R.  Heresy tends to do that ... wreak havoc on your rational faculties, which are clearly impaired.
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Offline augustineeens

Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #186 on: June 19, 2022, 10:29:10 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on June 18, 2022, 04:48:31 AM
Catholics who are bad willed heretics

When will you get it through your thick head that there is no such thing as a "Catholic heretic"? If a Catholic commits the sin of heresy, he ceases to be a Catholic and loses his membership in the Church!

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208: “By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.”

You don't confess the one Church, not of heretics, therefore the logical conclusion is that you yourself are a heretic!

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22), June 29, 1943, addressed to the universal Church: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith…”

You hold that a manifest heretic can be a member of the Church!

If someone repents of their heresy, and accepts the Catholic Faith again, then they are once again a Catholic and can be absolved with the sacrament of Penance. They may even be justified before receiving the sacrament, through perfect contrition. That is not to say a heretic can receive the sacraments. If he renounces his heresy, then he is no longer a heretic. This is so basic that a five year old could grasp it. It shows how bad-will and obstinacy in error can completely blind someone's intellect.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #187 on: June 19, 2022, 10:57:23 PM »
Quote from: augustineeens on June 19, 2022, 10:29:10 PM
When will you get it through your thick head that there is no such thing as a "Catholic heretic"? If a Catholic commits the sin of heresy, he ceases to be a Catholic and loses his membership in the Church!

To lose membership in the Church the heresy must be manifest.  Occult sin of heresy does not exclude one from membership in the Church ... according to St. Robert Bellarmine.

I’ve long ago stopped arguing with Stubborn about this issue.  His mind is so warped that the logic is too badly twisted and can’t be unraveled.

Among other things, he holds that the Magisterium is inerrant, but only because when there’s error it’s no longer Magisterium.  So he turns the inerrancy of the Magisterium into a tautology.  He defines Magisterium as only the Traditional teaching, so that the Magisterium is always Traditional.  It’s mind-boggling in its insanity.  So I’ve stopped wasting my time debating him.  Heresy has warped his brain.
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #188 on: June 20, 2022, 05:38:23 AM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on June 19, 2022, 05:41:04 PM
Heretics are outside of the Church until they repent (i.e. repudiate their errors and convert). I don't see how I ever said that wasn't the case. You're trying to twist my position into a contradiction where one doesn't exist.

You know you're wrong, that's why you're resorting to insulting my intelligence. Go right ahead. I'm not the one holding to a contradictory position here like the heretical and schismatic R&R position you hold.
I really was hoping that you would simply answer the question, instead, look ^^ what you reply with.

 

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Bergolio says that there are many American Catholics who won’t accept Vatican II
« Reply #189 on: June 20, 2022, 06:20:34 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 19, 2022, 10:57:23 PM



I’ve long ago stopped arguing with Stubborn about this issue.  His mind is so warped that the logic is too badly twisted and can’t be unraveled.

Among other things, he holds that the Magisterium is inerrant, but only because when there’s error it’s no longer Magisterium.  So he turns the inerrancy of the Magisterium into a tautology.  He defines Magisterium as only the Traditional teaching, so that the Magisterium is always Traditional.  It’s mind-boggling in its insanity.  So I’ve stopped wasting my time debating him.  Heresy has warped his brain.

This is so richly ironic, Lad. 

Look, with a simple change from "Magisterium" to "Church/Magisterium" (but you could also leave it as Magisterium), and "inerrant" and "Traditional teaching" to "indefectible":


Quote
Among other things, he holds that the [Church/Magisterium] is [indefectible], but only because when there’s error it’s no longer [the Church/Magsiterium].  So he turns the [indefectibility] of the [Church/Magisterium] into a tautology.  He defines [the Church/Magisterium] as only [indefectible (capable of inerrant teaching)], so that the [Church/Magisterium] is always [indefectible] It’s mind-boggling in its insanity.  So I’ve stopped wasting my time debating him.  Heresy has warped his brain.

Of course, unlike Stubborn, who places the Magisterium in the Revelation of God to the Church through Scripture and Tradition, which the pope is to teach and defend, you place the Magisterium in the pope and the bishops in union with him - for you they are the Church/Magisterium. So when they teach error to the world in their ordinary Magisterium, the Magisterium teaches error.

Let's paraphrase that a bit: you hold that John XXXIII (perhaps not him), Paul VI, JPII, Benedict XVI and Francis - all elected by the cardinals of the Church according to the laid down procedures of the Church -do not teach as the Magisterium despite their lawful elections because the Magisterium can't teach error its official, Magisterial capacity, and they do.

So, whenever a pope comes along who teaches error he can't be pope because, well, he teaches error, and popes can't teach error.

Did you say something about tautology, Lad?

I suggest investing in a big mirror and saying your morning prayers in front of it. 


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