Author Topic: Bergolio Leads Lutherans to Hell (Read 920 times)

Last Tradhican · « **on:** October 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM »

Bergolio Leads Luthernas to Hell

See Video: http://www.romereports.com/2016/10/13/pope-jokes-in-ecuмenical-meeting-who-is-better-catholics-or-lutherans

Bergolio tells Lutherans that they follow the true faith of Jesus Christ:

"I really like the good Lutherans, the Lutherans who follow the true faith of Jesus Christ. However, I do not like lukewarm Catholics".

"Catholics and Lutherans are already united because they are Christians"[/i]

St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant

People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!
St. Peter Julian Eymard

Observations:

If Bergolio is a valid priest, Bishop, and the pope, he would be receiving the special Graces from God that were received by St. Peter and all his successors. The Pope would have a "direct line" to God. That is a fact, and all the conciliar "popes" would have received all those Graces if they really were popes. The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions?:

Ecuмenism (the above Bergolio quotes are typical of what is communicated to all false religions)
Hindus, Muslims, Jєωs..... need not convert
Assisi
Catholic - Lutheran Joint Declaration on the doctrine of Justification
Removing Catholicism as country's religion (opening the flood gates of Protestantism in Latin America)
Balamand Accord
Ostpolitik
Easy annulments (adultery)
NFP (Catholic birth control),
New Mass,
New Sacraments,
Communion in the hand (sacrilege)
Permitting forced sex education in Catholic schools

Stubborn · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2016, 08:36:40 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

If Bergolio is a valid priest, Bishop, and the pope, he would be receiving the special Graces from God that were received by St. Peter and all his successors.

Like all humans creatures, in order for even popes to receive special graces, they must accept them. God does not force his graces, He offers them.

His validity or invalidity is dependent upon his priestly ordination and consecration as bishop, his election to the papacy self validates.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2016, 09:11:26 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Last Tradhican

If Bergolio is a valid priest, Bishop, and the pope, he would be receiving the special Graces from God that were received by St. Peter and all his successors.

Like all humans creatures, in order for even popes to receive special graces, they must accept them. God does not force his graces, He offers them.

His validity or invalidity is dependent upon his priestly ordination and consecration as bishop, his election to the papacy self validates.

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Quote

That is a fact, and ALL the conciliar "popes" would have received all those Graces if they really were popes. The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions?:

Stubborn · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2016, 09:48:10 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Although true, it's not that they all merely don't accept them, they all willfully reject them just the same as every other human creature willfully rejects them. Popes are no different than anyone else in that regard. The only exception we know of is St. Paul, the rest of creation needs to accept the graces offered.

There is nothing to stop popes from leading the flock astray - because they are free to reject the graces necessary to lead the flock to God and be evil men, Our Lord called them wolves. Not to worry though, even an errant pope, hell bent on destroying the Church from within will never succeed in destroying the Church.

The truth is, he may be able to lead most of the people to the pit, but once there, it is the sheeple themselves who willingly jump into the pit on their own - no one pushes them. That is what they chose because that is what they really wanted - that's why we are in this mess.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2016, 11:54:13 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Last Tradhican

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Although true, it's not that they all merely don't accept them, they all willfully reject them just the same as every other human creature willfully rejects them. Popes are no different than anyone else in that regard. The only exception we know of is St. Paul, the rest of creation needs to accept the graces offered.

There is nothing to stop popes from leading the flock astray - because they are free to reject the graces necessary to lead the flock to God and be evil men, Our Lord called them wolves. Not to worry though, even an errant pope, hell bent on destroying the Church from within will never succeed in destroying the Church.

The truth is, he may be able to lead most of the people to the pit, but once there, it is the sheeple themselves who willingly jump into the pit on their own - no one pushes them. That is what they chose because that is what they really wanted - that's why we are in this mess.

The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions if they are the Church and the Vicars of Christ?

Stubborn · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2016, 12:02:15 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Last Tradhican

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Although true, it's not that they all merely don't accept them, they all willfully reject them just the same as every other human creature willfully rejects them. Popes are no different than anyone else in that regard. The only exception we know of is St. Paul, the rest of creation needs to accept the graces offered.

There is nothing to stop popes from leading the flock astray - because they are free to reject the graces necessary to lead the flock to God and be evil men, Our Lord called them wolves. Not to worry though, even an errant pope, hell bent on destroying the Church from within will never succeed in destroying the Church.

The truth is, he may be able to lead most of the people to the pit, but once there, it is the sheeple themselves who willingly jump into the pit on their own - no one pushes them. That is what they chose because that is what they really wanted - that's why we are in this mess.

The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions if they are the Church and the Vicars of Christ?

The Vicar of Christ is not Christ, Christ's Vicar is a man, the Vicar is the Visible head of the Church on earth - as such is not immune to any sin, including the sin of scandal, or heresy, or murder, or lust or etc.

He is only unable to speak even the slightest possibility of error or sin (heresy), when he speaks ex cathedra. As Fr. Wathen stated in The Great Sacrilege: "The doctrine of papal infallibility, by stating in what respect the pope cannot err, admits, in effect, that in all other areas of his vast prerogatives the pope is completely fallible."

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2016, 12:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Last Tradhican
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Last Tradhican

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Although true, it's not that they all merely don't accept them, they all willfully reject them just the same as every other human creature willfully rejects them. Popes are no different than anyone else in that regard. The only exception we know of is St. Paul, the rest of creation needs to accept the graces offered.

There is nothing to stop popes from leading the flock astray - because they are free to reject the graces necessary to lead the flock to God and be evil men, Our Lord called them wolves. Not to worry though, even an errant pope, hell bent on destroying the Church from within will never succeed in destroying the Church.

The truth is, he may be able to lead most of the people to the pit, but once there, it is the sheeple themselves who willingly jump into the pit on their own - no one pushes them. That is what they chose because that is what they really wanted - that's why we are in this mess.

The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions if they are the Church and the Vicars of Christ?

The Vicar of Christ is not Christ, Christ's Vicar is a man, the Vicar is the Visible head of the Church on earth - as such is not immune to any sin, including the sin of scandal, or heresy, or murder, or lust or etc.

He is only unable to speak even the slightest possibility of error or sin (heresy), when he speaks ex cathedra. As Fr. Wathen stated in The Great Sacrilege: "The doctrine of papal infallibility, by stating in what respect the pope cannot err, admits, in effect, that in all other areas of his vast prerogatives the pope is completely fallible."

You've said before that " The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell", indeed, that is where I got the quote from. I also asked you before and you answered that the Church of Christ is not the conciliar church. Therefore, putting it all together, I conclude that you think the pope is a heretic that has lead souls to hell, but he is the visible elected pope, and think the conciliar church is a false church, but it is the visible elected church and that you do not listen to either, but are subject to the office of the pope.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2016, 12:43:57 PM »

Who does Pope Francis consider to be "good Lutherans"?

Is there a definition of a good Lutheran?

I get the whole he-said-this-in-gest but what does being a good Lutheran mean?

As Catholics we really should stay away from the double talk that is the hallmark of the тαℓмυdists in Judaism. They code their words to mean something other than what is said and sometimes what appears to be a neutral statement to the unwary reader is actually a venomous insult. Let's hope even the Novus Ordites are starting down that path.

Nishant · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2016, 01:04:35 PM »

Quote

The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell

Christ's Vicar holds His Keys and exercises His authority. But when he speaks as a private person (e.g. in an off-the-cuff interview), he can err and give scandal. A Pope can be evil and lead souls to hell through bad example and culpable negligence of duty. In such a case, we should pray for him and go about doing our duty as good Catholics. It is the duty especially of other subordinate shepherds of the Church to rebuke even their superior, especially if there is danger to the Faith, as St. Paul the Apostle rebuked St. Peter the Pope. How much more can it often be necessary to rebuke an evil Pope. Lay Catholics are justified in rebuking Pope Francis for his many inexcusable statements, but no more. We cannot depose him or usurp what belongs to the hierarchy.

As for your opinion that this vindicates your idea that there are basically no more shepherds in the Church, Pope St. Pius X asks you, "If they attack the shepherds of the Church ... about which Church do these men mean to speak? Certainly not that built upon the Apostles"

Stubborn · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2016, 02:26:25 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Last Tradhican
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Last Tradhican

It is one thing for one conciliar pope to not to accept some graces, it is another for all the conciliar popes to not accept them, and the most important point is that it is another thing to lead souls to hell, which they ALL have.

Although true, it's not that they all merely don't accept them, they all willfully reject them just the same as every other human creature willfully rejects them. Popes are no different than anyone else in that regard. The only exception we know of is St. Paul, the rest of creation needs to accept the graces offered.

There is nothing to stop popes from leading the flock astray - because they are free to reject the graces necessary to lead the flock to God and be evil men, Our Lord called them wolves. Not to worry though, even an errant pope, hell bent on destroying the Church from within will never succeed in destroying the Church.

The truth is, he may be able to lead most of the people to the pit, but once there, it is the sheeple themselves who willingly jump into the pit on their own - no one pushes them. That is what they chose because that is what they really wanted - that's why we are in this mess.

The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell. The vicar of Christ can never lead souls to hell. Then how is it that Bergolio above, and all the Vatican II popes, have lead Catholics, Protestants, Muslim, Hindus..... to hell with all their actions and directions if they are the Church and the Vicars of Christ?

The Vicar of Christ is not Christ, Christ's Vicar is a man, the Vicar is the Visible head of the Church on earth - as such is not immune to any sin, including the sin of scandal, or heresy, or murder, or lust or etc.

He is only unable to speak even the slightest possibility of error or sin (heresy), when he speaks ex cathedra. As Fr. Wathen stated in The Great Sacrilege: "The doctrine of papal infallibility, by stating in what respect the pope cannot err, admits, in effect, that in all other areas of his vast prerogatives the pope is completely fallible."

You've said before that " The Catholic Church, which is Christ, can never lead souls to hell", indeed, that is where I got the quote from. I also asked you before and you answered that the Church of Christ is not the conciliar church. Therefore, putting it all together, I conclude that you think the pope is a heretic that has lead souls to hell, but he is the visible elected pope, and think the conciliar church is a false church, but it is the visible elected church and that you do not listen to either, but are subject to the office of the pope.

The pope is a heretic who preaches heresy that sheeple accept as Catholic teaching. As such many lose their faith and likely end up in hell.

The pope is the visible head of the Church on earth.

Fr. Wathen explains it: "the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church, though it is within it, like a fifth column". This is not only true, I think that he explains it very well in a very short amount of space.

The dogma says it is necessary to be subject to the pope. It does not say it is necessary to be subject to the pope unless you have your doubts, then you are relieved of the obligation.

The dogma does not say we must blindly submit or obey, does not say we must have blind canonical submission to him, be in communion with him in his heresies - it says we must be subject to him or we will not get to heaven.

Now, how can one possibly be subject to a heretic pope and still get to heaven?

Very simply, "we should have to continue to obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority, UNLESS he should command something which is sinful." - as Fr. Wathen put it.

Our religious obligations are the same whether he is the pope or not. We are still bound to do good, avoid that which is evil, and believe and practice the truths of Catholic faith. That, in a nutshell, is the whole of our religious obligation while we live. Period. Deciding whether he is a true or false pope does not enter into our religious obligations.

OTOH, the sedevacantists seem content to have figured out how to get to heaven without being subject to him, I haven't.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2016, 05:50:08 PM »

Quote

Now, how can one possibly be subject to a heretic pope and still get to heaven?

Very simply, "we should have to continue to obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority, UNLESS he should command something which is sinful." - as Fr. Wathen put it.

How do you "obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority"? what are those "religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority"? If you are like me (and you are, for you said you go to an SSPX chapel, and you are a strict EENSer, and you agree with Fr. Wathen) you really don't listen to a thing that Pope Frances says, so how is that we obey him? I have serious doubts whether he is even a priest, as I do with all Novus Ordo oredained priests. If we truly obeyed him we would at least go to the indult mass. We do not even believe their sacrament of ordination is real?

If he walked up to me tomorrow and told me that I had to for instance send my children to the local Catholic school, I would tell him, listen, I have serious doubts whether you are even a priest, and by your deeds you have proven yourself to be just a payaso (a clown in Spanish) to me.

Stubborn · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2016, 08:05:17 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote
Now, how can one possibly be subject to a heretic pope and still get to heaven?

Very simply, "we should have to continue to obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority, UNLESS he should command something which is sinful." - as Fr. Wathen put it.

How do you "obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority"? what are those "religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority"? If you are like me (and you are, for you said you go to an SSPX chapel, and you are a strict EENSer, and you agree with Fr. Wathen) you really don't listen to a thing that Pope Frances says, so how is that we obey him? I have serious doubts whether he is even a priest, as I do with all Novus Ordo oredained priests. If we truly obeyed him we would at least go to the indult mass. We do not even believe their sacrament of ordination is real?

We cannot listen to any thing he says, but that is something he brought on himself. He has proven himself an untrustworthy shepherd.

But I am quite sure that if he ever did bind us to do something Catholic, we would hear about it, likely here on CI or one of the other forums, or as a mocking or slanderous story in the media.

Quote from: Last Tradhican

If he walked up to me tomorrow and told me that I had to for instance send my children to the local Catholic school, I would tell him, listen, I have serious doubts whether you are even a priest, and by your deeds you have proven yourself to be just a payaso (a clown in Spanish) to me.

See, people say things like that, but a scenario like that or along those lines is not something we ever need to worry about - to me, it's comparable to the "unforeseen accident" - simply will never happen so I don't concern myself with it.

All I know and is what I keep saying - if I want to get to heaven, I must be subject to the pope no matter how rotten of a pope or how big of a heretic I think he is. My being subject to him is not dependent upon his sanctity or his evil. I am not allowed violate the truth and holiness of the dogma by substituting my own puny human ideas and preferences into the divine revelation.

Even if everyone else believes it is impossible to be subject to the conciliar popes, I will remain subject to them because though we do not know if we will even make it to heaven, I do know that I will never get to heaven if I am not subject to the Roman Pontiff, even if everyone else can get in without it.

What matters is salvation. Among all the affairs of men, salvation is the only thing that matters. If a man saves his soul, all that he paid was negligible; if he loses his soul, everything else he did comes to waste and bitter memory. - Fr. Wathen