Author Topic: Bergoglios List  (Read 1085 times)

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Offline poche

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Bergoglios List
« on: October 10, 2013, 02:00:30 AM »
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  • Italian journalist Nello Scavo has released a book entitled “Bergoglio’s List,” recounting the efforts of Pope Francis to help hundreds escape persecution by Argentina's military dictatorship.

    Scavo told CNA that his book was based on interviews with numerous eyewitnesses and on testimonies reconstructed after thorough research in Argentina.  

    “From all these stories emerges a list of persons saved by (then-Father) Bergoglio, which by conservative estimates includes more than 100 people.”

    During much of the 1970s, Argentina was ruled by a right-wing military government, which “disappeared” thousands of left-wing activists and militants, accusing them of communism.

    From 1976 to 1981, the country's de facto president was General Jorge Rafael Videla, whose regime disappeared as many as 30,000 Argentines, and may have murdered as many as 15,000. Kidnappings, torture, and other violations of human rights were rampant.

    During the Videla regime, numerous priests and religious were killed for their work in the poor neighborhoods of Buenos Aires, which was considered a communist act.

    During this time, from 1973 to 1980, Fr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio - now Pope Francis - was the Jesuit provincial in Argentina.

    Fr. Bergoglio used his position to create an underground network of assistance and escape for those targeted by Videla's government. Scavo says the list of witnesses of Fr. Bergoglio's efforts continues to grow, and new stories continue to surface about how he helped dozens through his network.

    “The witnesses tell us that the driving force behind this network was Fr. Bergoglio,” Scavo explained.

    Scavo recounts in “Bergoglio's List,” published Oct. 1 in Italian, that the future Pope “knew that if he wanted to help these people, he had to cover his tracks.”

    The title of the book harkens to the famous list maintained by Oskar Schindler, the German businessman who saved some 1,200 Jews from being murdered during the Holocaust. His story is the basis for the award-winning film, “Schindler's List.”

    Schindler, incidentally, lived for nearly 10 years in Argentina following World War II, while Pope Francis was a teenager and young adult.

    Scavo makes clear that “Bergoglio's list” “itself does not exist; it is only in the heart and mind of Pope Francis, who never wanted to speak about these things.”

    Many of those helped by the future Pope were sent by cargo ship to neighboring Uruguay, where Jesuits there provided them safe passage to other neighboring countries, or to Europe.  

    Those aided expected to live in misery as refugees, but “Bergoglio’s network” provided them with food, shelter and other aid.

    They were never made aware of the network until after having boarded the cargo ships, Scavo relates, when they were finally told they had been saved through the efforts of Fr. Bergoglio.

    “It was impossible for these Jesuits in the rest of the countries of Latin America to operate autonomously without an order from the head of the Jesuits in Argentina, whose superior was Jorge Mario Bergoglio,” Scavo says.

    “He acted with prudence, audacity, and almost like a secret agent during a difficult time.”

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-rescued-hundreds-from-military-dictatorship-author-says/

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    Bergoglios List
    « Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 02:49:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Italian journalist Nello Scavo has released a book entitled “Bergoglio’s List,” recounting the efforts of Pope Francis to help hundreds escape persecution by Argentina's military dictatorship.

    Scavo told CNA that his book was based on interviews with numerous eyewitnesses and on testimonies reconstructed after thorough research in Argentina.  

    “From all these stories emerges a list of persons saved by (then-Father) Bergoglio, which by conservative estimates includes more than 100 people.”

    During much of the 1970s, Argentina was ruled by a right-wing military government, which “disappeared” thousands of left-wing activists and militants, accusing them of communism.

    From 1976 to 1981, the country's de facto president was General Jorge Rafael Videla, whose regime disappeared as many as 30,000 Argentines, and may have murdered as many as 15,000. Kidnappings, torture, and other violations of human rights were rampant.

    During the Videla regime, numerous priests and religious were killed for their work in the poor neighborhoods of Buenos Aires, which was considered a communist act.

    During this time, from 1973 to 1980, Fr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio - now Pope Francis - was the Jesuit provincial in Argentina.

    Fr. Bergoglio used his position to create an underground network of assistance and escape for those targeted by Videla's government. Scavo says the list of witnesses of Fr. Bergoglio's efforts continues to grow, and new stories continue to surface about how he helped dozens through his network.

    “The witnesses tell us that the driving force behind this network was Fr. Bergoglio,” Scavo explained.

    Scavo recounts in “Bergoglio's List,” published Oct. 1 in Italian, that the future Pope “knew that if he wanted to help these people, he had to cover his tracks.”

    The title of the book harkens to the famous list maintained by Oskar Schindler, the German businessman who saved some 1,200 Jews from being murdered during the Holocaust. His story is the basis for the award-winning film, “Schindler's List.”

    Schindler, incidentally, lived for nearly 10 years in Argentina following World War II, while Pope Francis was a teenager and young adult.

    Scavo makes clear that “Bergoglio's list” “itself does not exist; it is only in the heart and mind of Pope Francis, who never wanted to speak about these things.”

    Many of those helped by the future Pope were sent by cargo ship to neighboring Uruguay, where Jesuits there provided them safe passage to other neighboring countries, or to Europe.  

    Those aided expected to live in misery as refugees, but “Bergoglio’s network” provided them with food, shelter and other aid.

    They were never made aware of the network until after having boarded the cargo ships, Scavo relates, when they were finally told they had been saved through the efforts of Fr. Bergoglio.

    “It was impossible for these Jesuits in the rest of the countries of Latin America to operate autonomously without an order from the head of the Jesuits in Argentina, whose superior was Jorge Mario Bergoglio,” Scavo says.

    “He acted with prudence, audacity, and almost like a secret agent during a difficult time.”

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-rescued-hundreds-from-military-dictatorship-author-says/


    Just the fact that Bergoglio was a superior during a time when Arrupe was head of the Jesuits tells you the man was a communist. This is the time where you find the guerilla Jesuits in Latin America, there is simply no way that he could have been Orthodox. It was impossible to be the superior in Latin America during that time and not be pro liberation theology. I read the Jesuit's which was written by Malachi Martin the triple agent, but in the book he goes pretty in depth on the life of Arrupe and his policies. Now of course its a completely unreliable source, I kind of wish I would never had read the book now, because now I have to unlearn whatever I learned from the Jesuits in that book.

    Anyone else might recommend some good books on the Jesuits that are solid, some sort of history of the Jesuits in more modern times written from a traditional Catholic orthodox perspective? Thanks.

    edit: spelling
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    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Bergoglios List
    « Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 10:24:16 AM »
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  • It looks as if the mainstream media and the press of the world is in full speed ahead mode to put Pope Francis is the best possible light.  

    Is Bergoglio the man of the hour for the enemies of the Church?

    Or is it the creation of a positive myth that will carry the day?  Bergoglio's list being analagous to "Schindler's List"?  

    Offline poche

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    Bergoglios List
    « Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 11:27:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    It looks as if the mainstream media and the press of the world is in full speed ahead mode to put Pope Francis is the best possible light.  

    Is Bergoglio the man of the hour for the enemies of the Church?

    Or is it the creation of a positive myth that will carry the day?  Bergoglio's list being analagous to "Schindler's List"?  

    Wait until he has to pronounce on something important, like birth control or gay marriage or communion for Catholics living in marriages that are irregular. Then you will see the "politically correct" and fashionable turn on Pope Francis.

    Offline poche

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    Bergoglios List
    « Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 02:53:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher
    Quote from: poche
    Italian journalist Nello Scavo has released a book entitled “Bergoglio’s List,” recounting the efforts of Pope Francis to help hundreds escape persecution by Argentina's military dictatorship.

    Scavo told CNA that his book was based on interviews with numerous eyewitnesses and on testimonies reconstructed after thorough research in Argentina.  

    “From all these stories emerges a list of persons saved by (then-Father) Bergoglio, which by conservative estimates includes more than 100 people.”

    During much of the 1970s, Argentina was ruled by a right-wing military government, which “disappeared” thousands of left-wing activists and militants, accusing them of communism.

    From 1976 to 1981, the country's de facto president was General Jorge Rafael Videla, whose regime disappeared as many as 30,000 Argentines, and may have murdered as many as 15,000. Kidnappings, torture, and other violations of human rights were rampant.

    During the Videla regime, numerous priests and religious were killed for their work in the poor neighborhoods of Buenos Aires, which was considered a communist act.

    During this time, from 1973 to 1980, Fr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio - now Pope Francis - was the Jesuit provincial in Argentina.

    Fr. Bergoglio used his position to create an underground network of assistance and escape for those targeted by Videla's government. Scavo says the list of witnesses of Fr. Bergoglio's efforts continues to grow, and new stories continue to surface about how he helped dozens through his network.

    “The witnesses tell us that the driving force behind this network was Fr. Bergoglio,” Scavo explained.

    Scavo recounts in “Bergoglio's List,” published Oct. 1 in Italian, that the future Pope “knew that if he wanted to help these people, he had to cover his tracks.”

    The title of the book harkens to the famous list maintained by Oskar Schindler, the German businessman who saved some 1,200 Jews from being murdered during the Holocaust. His story is the basis for the award-winning film, “Schindler's List.”

    Schindler, incidentally, lived for nearly 10 years in Argentina following World War II, while Pope Francis was a teenager and young adult.

    Scavo makes clear that “Bergoglio's list” “itself does not exist; it is only in the heart and mind of Pope Francis, who never wanted to speak about these things.”

    Many of those helped by the future Pope were sent by cargo ship to neighboring Uruguay, where Jesuits there provided them safe passage to other neighboring countries, or to Europe.  

    Those aided expected to live in misery as refugees, but “Bergoglio’s network” provided them with food, shelter and other aid.

    They were never made aware of the network until after having boarded the cargo ships, Scavo relates, when they were finally told they had been saved through the efforts of Fr. Bergoglio.

    “It was impossible for these Jesuits in the rest of the countries of Latin America to operate autonomously without an order from the head of the Jesuits in Argentina, whose superior was Jorge Mario Bergoglio,” Scavo says.

    “He acted with prudence, audacity, and almost like a secret agent during a difficult time.”

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-rescued-hundreds-from-military-dictatorship-author-says/


    Just the fact that Bergoglio was a superior during a time when Arrupe was head of the Jesuits tells you the man was a communist. This is the time where you find the guerilla Jesuits in Latin America, there is simply no way that he could have been Orthodox. It was impossible to be the superior in Latin America during that time and not be pro liberation theology. I read the Jesuit's which was written by Malachi Martin the triple agent, but in the book he goes pretty in depth on the life of Arrupe and his policies. Now of course its a completely unreliable source, I kind of wish I would never had read the book now, because now I have to unlearn whatever I learned from the Jesuits in that book.

    Anyone else might recommend some good books on the Jesuits that are solid, some sort of history of the Jesuits in more modern times written from a traditional Catholic orthodox perspective? Thanks.

    edit: spelling

    So is Pope Francis a closet liberation theologian, or someone with strong sympathies for the school of thought? It’s a question that’s been raised many times since Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s election to the papacy in March. Most recently, the New York Times weighed in on the subject. While discussing the tone adopted by Bergoglio since becoming pope, the NYT article claimed that Francis has “an affinity for liberation theology.” “Francis’s speeches,” the article argues, “draw clearly on the themes of liberation theology.” It also suggested that “Francis studied with an Argentine Jesuit priest who was a proponent of liberation theology.”

    I’m afraid, however, that if one looks at Francis’s pre-pontifical writings, a rather different picture emerges. Certainly Bergoglio is a man who has always been concerned about those in genuine material need. But orthodox Christianity didn’t need to wait for liberation theology in order to articulate deep concern for the materially poor and to remind those with power and resources that they have concrete obligations to the less fortunate. From the very beginning, it was a message that pervaded the Gospels and the Church’s subsequent life.

    Indeed, in a preface to a 2005 book written by one of Latin America’s most thoughtful Catholic figures, Guzmán Carriquiry Lecour, Una apuesta por America Latina (A Commitment to Latin America), for example, Bergoglio had this to say about liberation theology:

    After the collapse of “real socialism,” these currents of thought were plunged into confusion. Incapable of either radical reformulation or new creativity, they survived by inertia, even if there are still some today who, anachronistically, would like to propose it again.

    That’s not to suggest that Bergoglio is a fan of contemporary capitalism. Plainly, he’s not. And to the extent Francis’s words about the financial crisis can be read as a condemnation of crony capitalism, his critique is more than justified. But not many people would describe the words above as endorsing the thought of as outspoken a liberationist such as Leonardo Boff.

    Interestingly, Bergoglio chose the same preface to go after “progresismo adolescente” (adolescent progressivism) and “laicismo militante” (militant secularism) which, he argued, often enlist state power to attempt to destroy the “sabiduría católica” (Catholic wisdom) of many people in developing nations.

    On these grounds, I suspect he’s not a fan of Western governments lecturing people in developing countries, especially with regard to sexual morality and sanctity-of-life questions. Such governments don’t hesitate to use foreign aid (an increasingly discredited way of helping those in need, but I digress) as a means to try to force, neo-colonial style, these nations to become as hedonistic and anti-life as, say, modern-day Belgium.

    But getting back to liberation theology, does Bergoglio reject holus-bolus everything about liberation theology? In the interview-book El Jesuita, Bergoglio says liberation theology had its pros and cons: the “pro” being its expression of what’s called the “preferential option for the poor,” the “con” being its “ideological deviations.” Well, that’s very close to the assessment expressed in the two “Instructions on Liberation Theology” published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1984 and 1986.

    And who is the Argentine Jesuit that our NYT friends have in mind? In all probability (because there’s really no other candidate), the reference is to Juan Carlos Scannone, S.J., who taught Bergoglio Greek and literature in the seminary.

    The difficulty with the Times’ claim, however, is that Scannone isn’t much of a liberation theologian. In fact Scannone has written papers emphasizing where his thought differs from the liberationists. In a 2011 interview, for example, Scannone himself said: “Myself, I‘ve never had anything to do with Marxism.” Scannone specifies that the primary difference between his thought and that of the liberationists is, to use his words, his theology “has neither used Marxist methodology for analyzing reality nor categories taken from Marxism.”

    Instead, Scannone is best known in Argentina for developing what’s called a teología del pueblo (theology of the people) — something, he says, that is viewed positively by Rome and which Bergoglio has praised on numerous occasions. It’s a theology that takes seriously the popular spirituality and often deeply traditional piety of ordinary people — the kind of thing that’s often the subject of much condescending commentary by your average German progressive theologian but which was also regarded by liberationists such as the late Juan Luis Segundo as a mass phenomenon incapable of fostering revolutionary change, making it an obstacle to “progress.”

    But the teología del pueblo, Scannone specifies, also draws considerable inspiration from Paul VI’s 1975 apostolic exhortation Evangelii Nuntiandi. In that sense, Scannone argues, the theology of the people represents “a journey of return between Latin America and Rome.” Here it’s worth noting that Evangelii Nuntiandi firmly rejected — over and over and over again — politicized concepts of Christian liberation and underscored that the Church “refuses to replace the proclamation of the kingdom by the proclamation of forms of human liberation.”

    Practically speaking, the teología del pueblo that’s alive and well in Argentina tends to be translated into bottom-up and locally based approaches to poverty. It also rejects calls for class struggle and Sandinista-style revolution. And while adherents of teología del pueblo in Argentina certainly insist on a great deal of government intervention, they also firmly reject top-down paternalism — something no doubt reinforced by the populist and statist policies pursued by the Krichners that have wreaked havoc upon Argentina’s economy over the past ten years.

    But if you want to get a sense of where Francis may take the Catholic Church regarding social and economic issues, you needn’t waste your energy toiling through texts like Boff’s Church: Charism and Power. Instead, pick up a copy of the concluding document of the Fifth General Conference of the Consejo Episcopal Latino Americano held at Aparecida in 2007.

    Alongside Honduras’s Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga, the text’s other major drafter was one Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio. It’s the document that Bergoglio gave to Cristina Krichner when she found herself (much to la Senora Presidente’s obvious discomfort) in Rome visiting the very same man who she and her late husband had done their level-best to ignore while he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, but who now finds himself seated on Peter’s Chair.

    Somehow I doubt that Cristina has read it. But if she did, she — and others — would soon discover how little it says about liberation theology, and how much it speaks about Jesus Christ.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/349432/pope-francis-and-liberation-theology#!

    In short Pope Francis is no fan of Liberation Theology and he is no communist.


     

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