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Author Topic: Bergoglio Denounces Big Families  (Read 6353 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
« on: January 19, 2015, 03:54:40 PM »
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  • http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/living/pope-said-what/index.html

    Quote from: Francis Bergoglio
    But God gives you methods to be responsible.  Some think that, excuse me if I use that word, that in order to be good Catholics we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood.



    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 04:28:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/living/pope-said-what/index.html

    Quote from: Francis Bergoglio
    But God gives you methods to be responsible.  Some think that, excuse me if I use that word, that in order to be good Catholics we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood.



    Is there another source for this quote?  The link almost seemed "tongue in cheek".



    Offline Stubborn

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 04:32:21 PM »
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  • It can't be true unless he is directing that at trads - mainstream NOers have not been "rabbits" for 50 years.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    It can't be true unless he is directing that at trads - mainstream NOers have not been "rabbits" for 50 years.


    No, they've been ostriches.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Marlelar

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 04:39:03 PM »
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  • Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 07:25:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    It can't be true unless he is directing that at trads - mainstream NOers have not been "rabbits" for 50 years.


    Birth rates everywhere else are not as low as in the Western World, though. However, Francis' favorite pastimes seems to be denouncing trads, so he could be directing it at us.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 11:57:48 PM »
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  • He did just come back from the PI.

    So, their birth rates aren't as low as the US or W Europe. And they're really NOers. Not sure they have "trads" per se.

    He could have been talking about them.

    Offline poche

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 01:12:44 AM »
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  • Here is the full text and the context of what the Pope said.

    Christoph Schmidt: Holy Father, first of all I would like to say: Thank you very much for all the impressive moments of this week. It is the first time I accompany you, and I would like to say thank you very much. My question: you have talked about the many children in the Philippines, about your joy because there are so many children, but according to some polls the majority of Filipinos think that the huge growth of Filipino population is one of the most important reasons for the enormous poverty in the country. A Filipino woman gives birth to an average of three children in her life, and the Catholic position concerning contraception seem to be one of the few question on which a big number of people in the Philippines do not agree with the Church. What do you think about that?

    Pope Francis: I think the number of three children per family that you mentioned – it makes me suffer- I think it is the number experts say is important to keep the population going. Three per couple. When this decreases, the other extreme happens, like what is happening in Italy. I have heard, I do not know if it is true, that in 2024 there will be no money to pay pensioners because of the fall in population. Therefore, the key word, to give you an answer, and the one the Church uses all the time, and I do too, is responsible parenthood. How do we do this? With dialogue. Each person with his pastor seeks how to do carry out a responsible parenthood.
    That example I mentioned shortly before about that woman who was expecting her eighth child and already had seven who were born with caesareans. That is a an irresponsibility That woman might say 'no, I trust in God.’ But, look, God gives you means to be responsible. Some think that -- excuse the language -- that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood. This is clear and that is why in the Church there are marriage groups, there are experts in this matter, there are pastors, one can search; and I know so many ways that are licit and that have helped this. You did well to ask me this.
    Another curious thing in relation to this is that for the most poor people, a child is a treasure. It is true that you have to be prudent here too, but for them a child is a treasure. Some would say 'God knows how to help me' and perhaps some of them are not prudent, this is true. Responsible paternity, but let us also look at the generosity of that father and mother who see a treasure in every child.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-text-of-popes-in-flight-interview-from-manila-to-rome-84716/


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 04:13:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Here is the full text and the context of what the Pope said.

    Christoph Schmidt: Holy Father, first of all I would like to say: Thank you very much for all the impressive moments of this week. It is the first time I accompany you, and I would like to say thank you very much. My question: you have talked about the many children in the Philippines, about your joy because there are so many children, but according to some polls the majority of Filipinos think that the huge growth of Filipino population is one of the most important reasons for the enormous poverty in the country. A Filipino woman gives birth to an average of three children in her life, and the Catholic position concerning contraception seem to be one of the few question on which a big number of people in the Philippines do not agree with the Church. What do you think about that?

    Pope Francis: I think the number of three children per family that you mentioned – it makes me suffer- I think it is the number experts say is important to keep the population going. Three per couple. When this decreases, the other extreme happens, like what is happening in Italy. I have heard, I do not know if it is true, that in 2024 there will be no money to pay pensioners because of the fall in population. Therefore, the key word, to give you an answer, and the one the Church uses all the time, and I do too, is responsible parenthood. How do we do this? With dialogue. Each person with his pastor seeks how to do carry out a responsible parenthood.
    That example I mentioned shortly before about that woman who was expecting her eighth child and already had seven who were born with caesareans. That is a an irresponsibility That woman might say 'no, I trust in God.’ But, look, God gives you means to be responsible. Some think that -- excuse the language -- that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits. No. Responsible parenthood. This is clear and that is why in the Church there are marriage groups, there are experts in this matter, there are pastors, one can search; and I know so many ways that are licit and that have helped this. You did well to ask me this.
    Another curious thing in relation to this is that for the most poor people, a child is a treasure. It is true that you have to be prudent here too, but for them a child is a treasure. Some would say 'God knows how to help me' and perhaps some of them are not prudent, this is true. Responsible paternity, but let us also look at the generosity of that father and mother who see a treasure in every child.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-text-of-popes-in-flight-interview-from-manila-to-rome-84716/


    Well, the full text and context didn't change my views. I especially liked this sentence though:

    Therefore, the key word, to give you an answer, and the one the Church uses all the time, and I do too, is responsible parenthood.

    Which Church would that be?  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Petertherock

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 07:38:21 AM »
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  • Quote
    But, look, God gives you means to be responsible.


    So, is the false pope saying God gives us birth control? Or is he saying married couples should abstain? What about the muzzrats? They are the ones reproducing like rabbits and will soon be a majority throughout the world. Is that OK "pope?"


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 08:03:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote
    But, look, God gives you means to be responsible.


    So, is the false pope saying God gives us birth control? Or is he saying married couples should abstain? What about the muzzrats? They are the ones reproducing like rabbits and will soon be a majority throughout the world. Is that OK "pope?"



    In context, he's basically promoting NFP as Catholic Birth Control.  While doing so the humble one yet again administers a backhanded slap to those with large families who believe that they should accept whatever children God wills for them to have.

    Oh would that his mother had been practicing "responsible parenting" before Jorge Bergoglio had been conceived.  (tongue-in-cheek but with a serious point being made)



    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 12:14:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote
    But, look, God gives you means to be responsible.


    So, is the false pope saying God gives us birth control? Or is he saying married couples should abstain? What about the muzzrats? They are the ones reproducing like rabbits and will soon be a majority throughout the world. Is that OK "pope?"



    In context, he's basically promoting NFP as Catholic Birth Control.  While doing so the humble one yet again administers a backhanded slap to those with large families who believe that they should accept whatever children God wills for them to have.

    Oh would that his mother had been practicing "responsible parenting" before Jorge Bergoglio had been conceived.  (tongue-in-cheek but with a serious point being made)



    Indeed.  As you said, this is an insult to large families.  And I can recall being told countless times that Natural Family Planning is not birth control.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Matto

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 12:22:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Bellator Dei
    There is a story about Saint John Vianney, speaking to the mother of a large family who was concerned about carrying a child in her old age:

    "To a mother of a large family, who was expecting another child, he said with fatherly kindness and consideration:  'Be comforted, my child.  If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it'."  (Abbe Francis Trochu, The Curé d’Ars – Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney)
     


    This exact quote came to my mind when I first heard about this. Saint John Vianney is one of my favorite saints. I would recommend his [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RDB7YA8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00RDB7YA8&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20 to anyone. After the Bible, it is the best religious book I have ever read.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline cassini

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 04:26:09 PM »
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  • I am the second of eight siblings. I have five children of my own.

    On the main Irish news tonight it showed Francis on his plane giving one of his 'off the cuff' interviews. His reference to 'RABBITS' was explicit, placing every mother and father with more than three children in a category of breeding like rabbits. This of course led to many discussions on radio as to how Catholics can stop 'breeding like rabbits' when the Church teaches against contraception. In one programme they said Catholics had long stopped 'breeding like rabbits' with the usual contraceptive methods and today very few take that teaching seriously anymore.

    Indeed one spokesperson said his daughter - a Catholic - never knew there was a teaching of contraception in the Catholic Church and she an adult in her 30s who went to a Catholicv school. They ended with a 'go forth and multiply' laugh saying that command by GOD has now ended with 'Pope Francis,' the job's done, the world is now full.

    I would call anyone using such language as a 'gurrier,' vulgar, the sort of language you would hear from drunks and the like. That a pope of the Catholic Church would accuse Catholic parents who do adhere to Catholic teachings and consequently 'have' large families they are like rabbits is UNBELIEVABLE.

    You think you have seen and heard ROCK-BOTTOM, but this guy is making a joke of the Catholic faith now.

    Offline Quasimodo

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    Bergoglio Denounces Big Families
    « Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 04:55:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote
    But, look, God gives you means to be responsible.


    So, is the false pope saying God gives us birth control? Or is he saying married couples should abstain? What about the muzzrats? They are the ones reproducing like rabbits and will soon be a majority throughout the world. Is that OK "pope?"



    In context, he's basically promoting NFP as Catholic Birth Control.  While doing so the humble one yet again administers a backhanded slap to those with large families who believe that they should accept whatever children God wills for them to have.

    Oh would that his mother had been practicing "responsible parenting" before Jorge Bergoglio had been conceived.  (tongue-in-cheek but with a serious point being made)


    I was surprised about a year ago when I heard someone on EWTN radio refer to NFP as natural birth control. Before that I'd always heard them argue that it wasn't birth control. Now I hear conservative novus ordites say "natural birth control" more frequently. At least their being more honest.

    I doubt it will be very many years before the new church accepts all forms of birth control.