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Author Topic: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status  (Read 1232 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
« on: July 25, 2022, 05:24:45 PM »
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  • Pope Francis has demoted the leader of the conservative Opus Dei group from bishop to priest, revoking the structure ordained by Saint John Paul II.

    In an apostolic letter ironically titled “Ad Charisma Tuendum” (In defense of the charism), Pope Francis reversed measures enacted by Saint John Paul II in 1982 that ensured that the Opus Dei personal prelature would always be governed by a bishop, thus guaranteeing a certain degree of independence and flexibility.


    More here:

    https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2022/07/23/pope-francis-demotes-status-of-conservative-opus-dei-group/?fbclid=IwAR0A7B91lLL0uttcrPs96uNVeohneV8uBMOusVAYdOeFPeH_yzd0-xm2gbI



    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Mike Henderson

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2022, 05:34:16 PM »
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  • . . . In an apostolic letter ironically titled “Ad Charisma Tuendum” (In defense of the charism) . . .

    Bergoglio's docuмent titles tend to be rich in irony lately.

    Guess full-throated papolatry doesn't count for as much as it used to.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2022, 06:08:00 PM »
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  • It’s an ill wind that blows no good!
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2022, 06:34:30 PM »
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  • I wonder what Bergolio will do to the SSPX? You know he must have a plan for them.

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2022, 06:38:18 PM »
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  • I wonder what Bergolio will do to the SSPX? You know he must have a plan for them.
    Like when our government says you have to "pass a bill to find out what's in it"... With Bergs you know the SSPX has to reconcile to see what happens :)

    I am guessing any reconciliation deal will stipulate transfer of property or it will be a nonstarter for Rome. If they simply reunited then excom'd SSPX Bishops and Priests we would be back to square one and the SSPX would simply do more consecrations.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #5 on: July 25, 2022, 07:05:51 PM »
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  • Bergoglio's docuмent titles tend to be rich in irony lately.

    Guess full-throated papolatry doesn't count for as much as it used to.

    LOL, absolutely.  It's like they're promoting the opposite of what the title seems to indicate, a diabolical inversion.  He also uses "joy" everywhere in the titles ("gaudium", "gaudete", "laetitia").

    "Amoris Laetitia" = "The Joy of Sex" :laugh1:

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #6 on: July 25, 2022, 11:39:46 PM »
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  • Pope Francis has demoted the leader of the conservative Opus Dei group from bishop to priest, revoking the structure ordained by Saint John Paul II.

    In an apostolic letter ironically titled “Ad Charisma Tuendum” (In defense of the charism), Pope Francis reversed measures enacted by Saint John Paul II in 1982 that ensured that the Opus Dei personal prelature would always be governed by a bishop, thus guaranteeing a certain degree of independence and flexibility.


    More here:

    https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2022/07/23/pope-francis-demotes-status-of-conservative-opus-dei-group/?fbclid=IwAR0A7B91lLL0uttcrPs96uNVeohneV8uBMOusVAYdOeFPeH_yzd0-xm2gbI

    Okay, I'm surely missing something here.  Or am I?

    The present "prelate" of Opus Dei is not a bishop, but a priest, Fr Ocariz.  He is termed "prelate" even though he is not a bishop, is that right?  The previous two prelates were bishops.  So is Francis saying "you may have had bishops in the past, but you won't going forward, your prelate will simply be a priest and not a bishop"?

    And I'm assuming that he could do likewise if the SSPX ever became a personal prelature.  (FWIW, and probably pretty much everybody here is aware of this, the Superior General of the SSPX need not be a bishop, can be, but doesn't have to be.)

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2022, 08:09:09 AM »
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  • I pray the sspx is paying attention and will walk away from their desire to "join Rome".


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #8 on: July 27, 2022, 07:53:21 AM »
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  • Okay, I'm surely missing something here.  Or am I?

    The present "prelate" of Opus Dei is not a bishop, but a priest, Fr Ocariz.  He is termed "prelate" even though he is not a bishop, is that right?  The previous two prelates were bishops.  So is Francis saying "you may have had bishops in the past, but you won't going forward, your prelate will simply be a priest and not a bishop"?

    And I'm assuming that he could do likewise if the SSPX ever became a personal prelature.  (FWIW, and probably pretty much everybody here is aware of this, the Superior General of the SSPX need not be a bishop, can be, but doesn't have to be.)
    I don't know who the present "prelate" is.  If it is a priest, then you are correct in stating something about this article doesn't make sense.  Perhaps the latest change is not the clerical status of the prelate leader, but that the oversight is no longer the Congregation of Bishops, but the Dicastery for the Clergy?

    As for the SSPX, I wonder, with this move, whether Bergoglio is opening the way for a prelature for them. 
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio demotes OD leader status
    « Reply #9 on: July 27, 2022, 11:15:33 AM »
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  • I don't know who the present "prelate" is.  If it is a priest, then you are correct in stating something about this article doesn't make sense.  Perhaps the latest change is not the clerical status of the prelate leader, but that the oversight is no longer the Congregation of Bishops, but the Dicastery for the Clergy?

    As for the SSPX, I wonder, with this move, whether Bergoglio is opening the way for a prelature for them.

    The upshot of all this seems to be that the title "prelate" is not necessarily reserved for a bishop, but that a priest can be a prelate as well.  That seems to be what is going on here.  A prelate has some of the honors and prerogatives of a bishop (similar to an abbot or abbess), even if he is simply a priest and not a bishop.