Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18

Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 11968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Incredulous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9369
  • Reputation: +9165/-890
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #240 on: July 18, 2021, 12:19:28 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on July 18, 2021, 11:37:46 AM
    Thats funny. Because his sermon this morning at my chapel said nothing of the sort. Rather, he very passionately advocated for tradition despite the choice of Modernist Rome to attack tradition once more.

    Father Robinson came to St. Benedict’s Church in Louisville several summers ago to announce from the pulpit that there is no salvation outside the SSPX.

    Therefore, when he uses the word “tradition” he means the Society’s version of tradition.

    It’s the compromised milieu of tradition that endorses soft-science computer geeks to proclaim the “Big Bang” theory as a valid interpretation of the book of Genesis.

    Father’s recent attacks on resistance chapels and such imagined evils as Father Feeney came as a surprise?

    In fact, his offensive was warning sign that the SSPX had covertly regularized with Francis.

    It’s not a coincidence that this  regularization was timed with Francis’s pulling the plug on the indulted TLM.
    Logged
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5003
    • Reputation: +1943/-244
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #241 on: July 18, 2021, 12:47:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 18, 2021, 10:12:16 AM
    We had a really great sermon on this MP today at my SSPX chapel - it was a great surprise as I did not expect so much as a word to be said about it - glad I was totally wrong! I personally was not the least bit concerned with it to begin with since it is nothing but old news that is simply repeated by another pope, but I am pretty sure if any people in the congregation were concerned, after this sermon they're not any more, or at least they shouldn't be.
    Could you provide a brief rundown of the main points?  I would have been interested to hear this sort of thing.
    Logged

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #242 on: July 18, 2021, 12:48:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Incredulous on July 18, 2021, 12:19:28 PM
    In fact, his offensive was warning sign that the SSPX had covertly regularized with Francis.

    It’s not a coincidence that this  regularization was timed with Francis’s pulling the plug on the indulted TLM.
    I'm not convinced, especially based on what he said today. He preached the same conclusion that many of you have drawn: the SSPX is back to the position it had during the 70s and 80s. He denounced Francis's decision, promoted resistance to the conciliar Church, tore apart the New Mass as evil, and expressed his concern over how the FSSP and ICKSP are going to fare going forward. Nothing he said this morning betrayed a conspiracy of collusion with Francis and the Vatican.

    I'm not a fan of his creation theology, but I'm not going to trash the man completely.
    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Prayerful

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1000
    • Reputation: +354/-59
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #243 on: July 18, 2021, 01:21:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 16, 2021, 07:36:44 AM
    I'm not sure what that provision means.  It'll probably be the cause of much confusion.  On the face of it, 90% of all the diocesan Motu Masses would have to be shut down ... as of this coming Sunday.  I doubt that's going to happen.  But we'll see.  I believe that the intent is for the establishment of NEW groups and that the older ones seem grandfathered in ... provided that the Bishop determines they're not hostile to the NOM.  What that means is also vague.  One bishop might just ask the priest, "Are you against the NOM?"  Answer:  "no".  Bishop: "OK".  I'm sure you'll find about 50% of Motarians who are hostile to the NOM.  Will each attendee be investigated and forced to sign a paper pledging allegiance to the NOM, to Bergoglio, and to Pachamama worship?

    At the end of the day, it'll just be whatever the bishop wants to do ... as it always has been.
    It certainly seems confused, barring it from regular parishes, limiting it to 'personal parishes' but most dioceses have no other churches but regular parish churches. Some places have big disused basilicas or oratories or chapels which might be given to ICKSP, but most don't. It might allow some to attempt a full suppression, especially for newer Francis appointees who found at lot of TLM in their new dioceses.
    'Missal antecedent to 1970' covers the everything from the earliest use of the Novus Ordo (promulgated in 1969 and only made mandatory in 1970), all the iterations of the transitional missal from 1964 to 1968, plus obviously the now standard '62 missal.
    It seems a shoddy docuмent.
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14767
    • Reputation: +6100/-909
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #244 on: July 18, 2021, 01:27:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on July 18, 2021, 12:47:48 PM
    Could you provide a brief rundown of the main points?  I would have been interested to hear this sort of thing.
    Main points he touched on the MP does not affect us nor does it affect faithful Catholics, the MP is just another assault aimed at ridding the True Mass for the new mass, which is a prot service, he really stressed we must strive to be strong in and wholly and faithfully Catholic, he spoke of the Scholastic Period, which is summed up in the Summa that we should read/study it to learn/strengthen our faith better. He explained why the latest attack on the true Mass via the MP does not affect faithful Catholics, we are not traditional Catholics, we are Catholics, they are conciliar but not Catholic, he went on in a little more detail about that. He talked about how there is no salvation outside of the Church so they (the conciliarists) don't stand a chance unless they convert before they die, being outside of the Church, they in fact are the ones who have the sword of Damocles hanging over their head and that's how we should view them, he went on about that for a bit. That we need to be firm in the faith to never have the slightest doubt that it's just a matter of when, not if the conciliar church will lose miserably and the MP aids them in this coming failure, that the gates of hell will never prevail.

    That's it in a nut shell, probably doesn't sound too inviting but I will say that it was the quickest 20 or so minutes I have sat through in a very long time, literally before I knew it, the sermon was over. After Church, speaking to a few friends, they said the same thing - that the sermon was outstanding, one said he wanted to clap and cheer, the other one said jokingly that they only do that in the NO lol.
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14767
    • Reputation: +6100/-909
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #245 on: July 18, 2021, 01:32:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Incredulous on July 18, 2021, 12:19:28 PM
    Father Robinson came to St. Benedict’s Church in Louisville several summers ago to announce from the pulpit that there is no salvation outside the SSPX.

    Therefore, when he uses the word “tradition” he means the Society’s version of tradition.
    I think I was there at that time, I know I met him, his mother introduced me to him, and yes I agree with you re: his idea of what tradition means - but per DL, it sounds as if he may have modified this idea. Hard to say for sure, this MP seems to have lit a fire under a few of the SSPX priests. 
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46814
    • Reputation: +27680/-5138
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #246 on: July 18, 2021, 02:56:24 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Interesting discussion about what Tradition means.

    So, the original Modernists held that Tradition can be understood differently as time goes by.

    But the neo-Modernists put a layer of misdirection on it.  "Yes, Tradition, but you have to understand it the way the Church understands it." ... and then proceed to impose their understanding onto it, claiming it's the Church's.

    Thus you get where EENS actually means the opposite of EENS, so that if you hold fast to the actual words, it's heretical.  If you say that heretics, schismatics, infidels, etc. cannot be saved, you're actually a heretic ... despite the fact that it's precisely what the text says.  "See the Church understands by EENS that heretics and infidels CAN be saved, you silly heretic, you."

    As various Modernist theologians put spins on things, that "theological consensus" became "how the Church understands it".  Which is where Cekadism falls apart.
    Logged

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #247 on: July 18, 2021, 03:05:22 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Its almost as if having this absence of a true Pope, or orthodox Pope, is precisely why we cannot have a true definition of tradition over the past 60+ years, because there's no one competent to define it or embody it.
    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Church Militant

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 63
    • Reputation: +20/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #248 on: July 18, 2021, 04:17:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 16, 2021, 06:29:56 AM
    Even Ratzinger's Motu left it to the bishops.

    Ratzinger:  permitted unless denied.

    Please provide the evidence for this.
    Logged

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12304
    • Reputation: +7802/-2404
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #249 on: July 18, 2021, 04:25:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

    • Quote
    We should pray that it is now time for the liberals to retreat.
    With the hopes of a deal now gone, maybe they’ll just leave for the dioceses or FSSP?

    That's naive.  Liberals never give up power.  They are out to destroy the sspx; they won't leave, they'll wait. 
    Logged

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 9369
    • Reputation: +9165/-890
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #250 on: July 18, 2021, 06:30:56 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on July 18, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
    I'm not convinced, especially based on what he said today. He preached the same conclusion that many of you have drawn: the SSPX is back to the position it had during the 70s and 80s. He denounced Francis's decision, promoted resistance to the conciliar Church, tore apart the New Mass as evil, and expressed his concern over how the FSSP and ICKSP are going to fare going forward. Nothing he said this morning betrayed a conspiracy of collusion with Francis and the Vatican.

    I'm not a fan of his creation theology, but I'm not going to trash the man completely.

    Of course, don’t believe my accusations.  I just make this stuff up.

    But... it was also Fr. Robinson who let the cat out of the bag in 2011, that Menzingen gave it’s SSPX priest Bi-monthly “talking points” in which to guide their sermons.

    This policy was inacted after +W’s h0Ɩ0h0αx affair.  To prevent priests from speaking their Catholic minds, like their seminary teacher, Bp. Williamson.

    So, today’s sermons in every SSPX chapel lamented Francis’s motu.  “Oh, and how sad that the indult orders are in jeopardy” :facepalm:

    It sounds so good, so traditional, but it’s all fake.

    The glaring contradiction is Bp. Fellay’s recent admission that the SSPX is now fully regularized with the Pachamama Pope’s newChurch.

    The SSPX would have it’s faithful believe they can have it both ways.
    Logged
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12304
    • Reputation: +7802/-2404
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #251 on: July 18, 2021, 06:55:19 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

    • Quote
    Nothing he said this morning betrayed a conspiracy of collusion with Francis and the Vatican.

    ...this morning...being the operative phrase.  Let's not forget what he's been saying for the past 5 years.
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46814
    • Reputation: +27680/-5138
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #252 on: July 18, 2021, 08:07:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Church Militant on July 18, 2021, 04:17:28 PM
    Please provide the evidence for this.

    You can look it up yourself.  There's a clause in there which said that ultimately the decision is that of the bishop.  Your parish priest couldn't just show up on a Sunday for the 10:30 Mass and start in with the "Introibo ad altare Dei".

    The only situation where a priest could say the Tridentine Mass wherever he wanted was a private Mass.  And in the practical order, there's such a priest shortage out there that rarely do NO priests have the chance to do private Masses.

    Public Masses were still under the control of the bishop.
    Logged

    Offline bodeens

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1513
    • Reputation: +804/-160
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #253 on: July 18, 2021, 11:15:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Xavier has entered the thread.
    Logged
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline Against the Heresies

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 119
    • Reputation: +108/-3
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #254 on: July 19, 2021, 02:08:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Sermon of Fr. Davide Pagliarani (in Italian)



    Logged
    Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18
    « previous next »