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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 11971 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #225 on: July 17, 2021, 09:08:01 PM »
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  • Wow. just WOW. This is rather off topic for this thread, but you said it.

    So, because some priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches are married, which is traditional, that's enough reason for you to avoid all the Eastern Churches, and to say so in a public forum and de facto recommend that to your followers.

    Just just judgements, Matthew.

    The Roman Rite also has married priests. Including the SSPX.

    And the Roman Rite lacks the culture the Eastern Churches has to facilitate married priests.
    Eh?

    Where does the SSPX have married priests? 

    Never heard that before.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #226 on: July 17, 2021, 09:17:53 PM »
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  • While the practical considerations you raise are valid, I have to disagree with your first statement.

    Firstly, the Church has always allowed it for the Eastern Rites.  Secondly, whether the priest can save his soul is between him and God.

    In many Traditional Catholic chapels, the priests show up for two-three hours per week, hear Confessions, offer Mass, and then get on a flight to the next place.

    So as far as that chapel is concerned, the priests is VERY "part-time".  So what's the difference between that and having a priest for, say, 40 hours per week?

    If people need the Sacraments, and if the priest has the Catholic faith, etc. then his being married is not "enough" reason to avoid the Eastern Rite.

    There are in fact SOME pluses.  Priests who have to deal with their wife and children might be in a better position to understand some of the dynamics involved when people come to them with marital problems and problems with their kids.
    Furthermore, considering that the Church *HAS* (for better or worse) allowed this, presumably God can and will take their dual vocation into account when judging their soul.

    I can also say from personal experience, as someone who left the Eastern Rite (where our priest was married) for the SSPX, it was *far* easier to get a one on one meeting with the Eastern Rite priest, and he was available *far* more often.

    mind, I still think I made the right decision, because, *sighs* there was a lot of heresy and modernism in that place not to mention serious capitulation to the government recently well beyond just a "we'll do what we have to to avoid getting dragged out in chains", but I think you're on the money here, a married priest who *doesn't* have to travel constantly may well have more time for his parishoners than a trad priest who has to travel to 2+ locations.

    Furthermore, while I get that celibate priesthood is the ideal (and as such, the fulness of the priesthood, episcopacy, must always be celibate) I'm open to the notion that there may be wisdom in a married priesthood *if* for whatever reason (particular issues in our society) its impossible to get enough genuine celibate vocations and instead is suffering infestation from ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity etc.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #227 on: July 17, 2021, 09:49:43 PM »
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  • No. Ratzinger's motu was pure evil. He deceived people about the Conciliar Sect of Antichrist. With Bergoglio people have a better chance to see what the Conciliar Sect is.


    Got to ask, who's that guy in the upper right-hand corner?

    Looks kind of like Redd Foxx trying to channel Che Guevara.

    Interesting thought.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #228 on: July 17, 2021, 09:57:55 PM »
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  • Er... Wheeling is in West Virginia.  Totally different state.  This said, it is in that weird skinny strip that juts up between Ohio and Pennsylvania.  It borders Ohio, and Pennsylvania is about five miles away to the east.  Conflating Virginia and West Virginia can cause issues if one ever visits the latter.

    But as to the important part, I have met Fr Carley before, he used to offer Holy Mass at the fire station in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (suburban Charleston), and I was traveling through the area and stayed overnight one time, 1996 IIRC.  Outstanding priest.  May he remain healthy in length of years.

    Yes, I know it’s WV.  Just a typo as I was typing very fast.  I drove Fr. Carley down there a couple times ... while he took the opportunity to pray his breviary.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #229 on: July 17, 2021, 09:59:59 PM »
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  • I’m surprised that no one thinks the “resistance” will pick up faithful?

    These resistance trads can be grouped as Resistance ex-SSPX and independent chapel trads.

    Those Catholics who can discern the compromises of the indult Mass (including FFSP and ICK) and the corruption of the Society.
    They are mostly independent chapel trads.

    A couple of trad men I know have been courting conservative Novus ordo ladies.  In each case, the women are negotiating for the indult Mass as a middle ground compromise.

    I would think Bergolio’s TLM ban would destroy the indult option and prove to the ladies that newChurch is degenerate?

    Lastly, if no Catholics are coming to resistance chapels, it can only mean we failed in communicating our position.  

    And WE are responsible from the top (Bp. Williamson) to the bottom (Sean Johnson).  
    Sorry to pick on you Sean  :popcorn:

    Resistance just has too few locations, that’s all.  Otherwise I would have put a small percentage down for them also.


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #230 on: July 17, 2021, 11:44:31 PM »
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  • I think Bergolio’s dream scenario was to get all the Trads under the SSPX umbrella.  He tried nicely initially, and when that got him nowhere, he decided to go Hardball.

    I still believe he wants all the Trads under one roof, and once he does, he will excommunicate the Society. 

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #231 on: July 18, 2021, 12:33:43 AM »
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  • Yes, I know it’s WV.  Just a typo as I was typing very fast.  I drove Fr. Carley down there a couple times ... while he took the opportunity to pray his breviary.
    OK, it's just that people get that wrong all the time, and West Virginians are very militant about their identity and their unique way of life.  It's about as "red state" as you can imagine. 

    I am not really "from there", but my West Virginia ties run deep --- my grandfather worked in the coal mines there --- and I took my son back to Charleston and surrounding areas a couple of years ago.  Fr Carley hasn't had the Cross Lanes chapel in probably over 20 years.  That is quite a distance from Wheeling, let alone Akron.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #232 on: July 18, 2021, 05:40:55 AM »
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  • It’ll be interesting to see whether Bergoglio pulls the jurisdiction for Confession from SSPX.  If so, how will Xavier react?

    Xavier, you’ve been silent about the Motu.  Contemplating SVism or making plans to attend your local NO Vishnu liturgy?


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #233 on: July 18, 2021, 10:12:16 AM »
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  • We had a really great sermon on this MP today at my SSPX chapel - it was a great surprise as I did not expect so much as a word to be said about it - glad I was totally wrong! I personally was not the least bit concerned with it to begin with since it is nothing but old news that is simply repeated by another pope, but I am pretty sure if any people in the congregation were concerned, after this sermon they're not any more, or at least they shouldn't be.




    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #234 on: July 18, 2021, 10:17:05 AM »
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  • We had a really great sermon on this MP today at my SSPX chapel - it was a great surprise as I did not expect so much as a word to be said about it - glad I was totally wrong! I personally was not the least bit concerned with it to begin with since it is nothing but old news that is simply repeated by another pope, but I am pretty sure if any people in the congregation were concerned, after this sermon they're not any more, or at least they shouldn't be.

    Same. 
     
    But I wonder what would happen to those who showed up only because Francis gave jurisdiction for confessions, if now he revoked ordinary jurisdiction?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #235 on: July 18, 2021, 10:27:18 AM »
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  • Same.
     
    But I wonder what would happen to those who showed up only because Francis gave jurisdiction for confessions, if now he revoked ordinary jurisdiction?
    Not sure but it would surprise me if more than a few from my chapel would leave. But if the pope did that, I'd be looking forward to another fiery sermon ha ha!
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #236 on: July 18, 2021, 11:07:56 AM »
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  • I think Bergolio’s dream scenario was to get all the Trads under the SSPX umbrella.  He tried nicely initially, and when that got him nowhere, he decided to go Hardball.

    I still believe he wants all the Trads under one roof, and once he does, he will excommunicate the Society.

    The “cattle herding” yes! (A тαℓмυdic concept BTW).

    But, this forum is dedicated to the fact that the SSPX has sold out their founder +ABL and Catholic tradition.  Many. many articles archived here on that.

    So if the neo-SSPX has betrayed Tradition and become covertly regularized with the Pachamama Pope, they are in on the grand scheme.

    I don’t see them being excommunicated, rather than acting as fake trad high Church.

    It is rather telling when the SSPX’s “science” priest (Paul Robinson) announces recently, that the biggest threat to the Catholic Faith... is the trad Resistance.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #237 on: July 18, 2021, 11:26:56 AM »
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  • Quote
    It is rather telling when the SSPX’s “science” priest (Paul Robinson) announces recently, that the biggest threat to the Catholic Faith... is the trad Resistance.

    Agree.  The new-sspx is still filled with Modernists, who want to be part of new-rome, but have yet to convince the laity.  Until the new-sspx leadership is ousted, we can't be sure what direction the organization will go.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #238 on: July 18, 2021, 11:33:05 AM »
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  • Agree.  The new-sspx is still filled with Modernists, who want to be part of new-rome, but have yet to convince the laity.  Until the new-sspx leadership is ousted, we can't be sure what direction the organization will go.
    True, but who knows?  Maybe the MP will/has emboldened formerly timid opponents of a practical accord?  Reports are now coming in from all over that formerly docile yes-men priests are blasting Roman modernists and V2 today.  
    We should pray that it is now time for the liberals to retreat.
    With the hopes of a deal now gone, maybe they’ll just leave for the dioceses or FSSP?
    Time will tell all.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #239 on: July 18, 2021, 11:37:46 AM »
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  • It is rather telling when the SSPX’s “science” priest (Paul Robinson) announces recently, that the biggest threat to the Catholic Faith... is the trad Resistance.
    Thats funny. Because his sermon this morning at my chapel said nothing of the sort. Rather, he very passionately advocated for tradition despite the choice of Modernist Rome to attack tradition once more.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]