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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 12518 times)

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Offline TKGS

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #210 on: July 17, 2021, 01:51:01 PM »
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  • An English monastery has abolished the traditional Mass as a direct result of the moto proprio:

    https://frbederowe.blogspot.com/2021/07/the-latin-mass.html

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #211 on: July 17, 2021, 01:53:59 PM »
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  • Here's why I think that the Modernist Heretics finally pulled the trigger.

    They were getting increasingly concerned that the Motu crowd were growing in numbers.  Originally it was intended as a fly trap to suck those back into the Conciliar institution who might otherwise be inclined to become Traditional Catholics.  But it was working in the opposite direction.

    It was intended to make Traditional Catholics less Traditional.  Instead, it was causing Conciliar Catholics to become more Traditional, and it was also serving as a "gateway" to true Traditional Catholicism.  That's why there's this huge emphasis on not having any more, not having newly-ordained priests offer the Tridentine Mass, etc.  They were worried about the growth of the Motarian movement and its slouching toward Tradition.
    Young people who weren't around/don't remember pre-Summorum are going to be too blackpilled. I think the young people in particular are going to go SV or SSPX, a lot of older people who've had this whiplash multiple times will just go NO. 





    I didn't see if this was posted here, but everyone knows about TM. I had no idea there were 41 Latin Masses in Detroit. That's a lot! I thought New York was good with less than ten.
    Getting fresh blood in the door that puts money in the plate is going to be an issue. In the next 20 years or so I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced some sort of Summorum thing again just to get a financial base situated once the boomers and silents are all gone. You'd think they would have been more worried about money rather than ideology but that shows just how wicked this motu is.

    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #212 on: July 17, 2021, 01:58:55 PM »
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  • Question:  I know that red pill and blue pill came from the decision to see reality from the Matrix movie.  But what is black pill?

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #213 on: July 17, 2021, 02:03:50 PM »
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  • Question:  I know that red pill and blue pill came from the decision to see reality from the Matrix movie.  But what is black pill?
    A hopeless pill. In this case, they wouldn't be able to reconcile the VII sect with reality. Ultimately taking a blackpill conclusion but not despairing pushes you towards the right direction.

    A good example would be: Temporalism, politics, and materialism are pointless.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #214 on: July 17, 2021, 02:20:28 PM »
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  • My guess:
    10% SSPX
    35% Eastern
    55% NOM
    0% sede
    0% Resistance
    I don't know anymore about how things will go down than you but I will say that the CMRI chapel in Salem, NH has doubled in attendance in the past 18 months.


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #215 on: July 17, 2021, 02:21:57 PM »
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  • And a lot of them are new to tradition.  But some are refugees from other traditional chapels that either got closed down for Covid or for other reasons.  And they stayed after everything opened up again.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #216 on: July 17, 2021, 02:23:48 PM »
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  • Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #217 on: July 17, 2021, 02:59:56 PM »
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  • I wait in eager anticipation of +Vigano's responses.

    Also, I'm curious about what the SSPX will say about this.
    Yes, not to mention the reactions to said responses.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #218 on: July 17, 2021, 03:14:38 PM »
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  • Father Carley should call the CMRI.  

    Well, while he's not hostile to sedevacantism, he isn't one himself, so he probably wouldn't consider that route.  But I wouldn't rule out that he could be persuaded by the right CMRI priest.  Nevertheless, there is already a CMRI chapel in Akron not all that far from Father Carley's.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #219 on: July 17, 2021, 06:09:15 PM »
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  • Yes, he's about, I think, 85, and still offers daily Mass and confession ... solid as rock.  Apart from when he was out for a few weeks with hip replacement (which is fatal to many elderly), I don't think he's missed a day in over 30 years.  He still goes out to mow his own grass and do yardwork and gardening.  Until recently, he would drive about 3 hours every Sunday to Wheeling, VA to take care of a small chapel there.  He ran a school for about 15 years, but that's no longer in service.

    Until the SSPX consecrated bishops, he would get his holy oils from Bishop McKenna.  He's not at all hostile to sedevacantism, believes that the NO is certainly invalid.  When a Novus Ordo hospital chaplain tried to give Communion to one of his "parishioners", he excoriated him for bringing invalid hosts.

    So, I was on his "Board of Trustees" for a while there, but I resigned after Father wanted us to sign papers leaving his chapel to the SSPX.  He felt it was the best option to ensure that the people there would be taken care of.  I warned him that the SSPX would likely sell the property and tell everyone to just go to St. Peregrine.  He just felt as though he had no choice, but I politely declined to sign the papers and resigned from the Board.

    So, during his hip surgery, he needed a replacement and asked the SSPX.  SSPX hemmed and hawed and then finally offered to send a priest for like a 3PM Mass for a couple weeks.  He threatened to take the SSPX off his property will.  So on Christmas day, Bishop Tissier showed up for the 9AM Mass.  Money talks for the SSPX.  But Father was NOT happy, since that was a harbinger of things to come when he passes away.

    So, I recently heard from my brother ... and I don't have all the details ... but the SSPX tried to extort $250,000 from Father Carley.  SSPX St. Peregrine chapel is building a new church (quite a bit closer to his chapel) and evidently the rectory/priory there alone will cost $500,000. So they told Father they wanted half of that amount from him as a condition for taking care of his chapel in the future.  St. Peregrine is another story.  They had raised close to a million dollars over the years in various fund-raising campaigns for a new church, but those funds evaporated ("embezzled" away so to speak by the SSPX, probably diverted to the seminary project).  So they had to start over again with a new fundraiser for the new chapel.  Lots of shady stuff going on there.  I'll try to get details on this latest extortion attempt.

    Father Carley is incredibly frugal ... to a fault perhaps.  I remember serving Mass and having to be alert lest his candles burned down so low that they would tip over (and potentially start a fire).  He burned those things down to nothing.  So Father has a lot of capital saved away from over the years, and the SSPX want to get their hands on it.  Over the years, he acquired a couple of the homes adjacent to the church and used them for various purposes, such as where the Brothers who taught at the school lived, and at a different time a couple of sisters.  One of them is a really nice house.

    I should think that the Resistance might get in touch with him, since Father Carley is absolutely of The Resistance mindset (even borderline sedevacantist).  He's actually on very friendly terms with Father Jenkins (who has a chapel in the Cleveland area).  Not only does Fr. Jenkins not have any issues with his people going to Fr. Carley's for Mass, but a woman from his chapel actually taught at Father Carley's school for several years.

    Father Carley is a very simple man, and not much for theological discussion.  All he knows is "Novus Ordo bad and not Catholic.  New Mass invalid and displeasing to God."
    Er... Wheeling is in West Virginia.  Totally different state.  This said, it is in that weird skinny strip that juts up between Ohio and Pennsylvania.  It borders Ohio, and Pennsylvania is about five miles away to the east.  Conflating Virginia and West Virginia can cause issues if one ever visits the latter.

    But as to the important part, I have met Fr Carley before, he used to offer Holy Mass at the fire station in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (suburban Charleston), and I was traveling through the area and stayed overnight one time, 1996 IIRC.  Outstanding priest.  May he remain healthy in length of years.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #220 on: July 17, 2021, 07:05:35 PM »
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  • Enough reason to avoid the Eastern Rite.
    Wow. just WOW. This is rather off topic for this thread, but you said it.

    So, because some priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches are married, which is traditional, that's enough reason for you to avoid all the Eastern Churches, and to say so in a public forum and de facto recommend that to your followers.

    Just just judgements, Matthew.

    The Roman Rite also has married priests. Including the SSPX.

    And the Roman Rite lacks the culture the Eastern Churches has to facilitate married priests.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #221 on: July 17, 2021, 07:49:49 PM »
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  • My guess:
    10% SSPX
    35% Eastern
    55% NOM
    0% sede
    0% Resistance

    I’m surprised that no one thinks the “resistance” will pick up faithful?

    These resistance trads can be grouped as Resistance ex-SSPX and independent chapel trads.

    Those Catholics who can discern the compromises of the indult Mass (including FFSP and ICK) and the corruption of the Society.
    They are mostly independent chapel trads.

    A couple of trad men I know have been courting conservative Novus ordo ladies.  In each case, the women are negotiating for the indult Mass as a middle ground compromise.

    I would think Bergolio’s TLM ban would destroy the indult option and prove to the ladies that newChurch is degenerate?

    Lastly, if no Catholics are coming to resistance chapels, it can only mean we failed in communicating our position.  

    And WE are responsible from the top (Bp. Williamson) to the bottom (Sean Johnson).  
    Sorry to pick on you Sean  :popcorn:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #222 on: July 17, 2021, 08:02:48 PM »
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  • Hm?  I think and ponder, that seminary in VA was built just in the nic of time. And what will be produced coming from there? hm?  I think that that was all well decided before the first brick was laid.  

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #223 on: July 17, 2021, 08:44:47 PM »
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  • IMAGE: A fan kneels at the entrance to the first Mexico's church in memory of soccer legend Diego Maradona. Photograph: Edgard Garrido/Reuters
    A pair of large vases bearing soccer balls stand at the entrance to Mexico's first Maradonian church and an image of Diego Maradona wearing a charro hat welcomes worshippers.
    Inside the church, the Catholic Stations of the Cross are recreated with photos of Maradona from his childhood to emblematic meetings with the late Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Pope Francis.
    That’s Pablo, isn’t it?

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #224 on: July 17, 2021, 08:45:11 PM »
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  • Seems the motive behind the Pope's Motu Proprio is to corral the Trads so that those who won't cow can be excommunicated.