Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 11990 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SeanJohnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15060
  • Reputation: +10006/-3162
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #195 on: July 17, 2021, 11:42:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • If I had to guess numbers, I would say:

    30% toward SSPX
    50% toward Eastern Rites
    18% NOM
    2% Sedevacantist
    My guess:
    10% SSPX
    35% Eastern
    55% NOM
    0% sede
    0% Resistance
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2897/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #196 on: July 17, 2021, 11:46:29 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, he's about, I think, 85, and still offers daily Mass and confession ... solid as rock.  Apart from when he was out for a few weeks with hip replacement (which is fatal to many elderly), I don't think he's missed a day in over 30 years.  He still goes out to mow his own grass and do yardwork and gardening.  Until recently, he would drive about 3 hours every Sunday to Wheeling, VA to take care of a small chapel there.  He ran a school for about 15 years, but that's no longer in service.

    Until the SSPX consecrated bishops, he would get his holy oils from Bishop McKenna.  He's not at all hostile to sedevacantism, believes that the NO is certainly invalid.  When a Novus Ordo hospital chaplain tried to give Communion to one of his "parishioners", he excoriated him for bringing invalid hosts.

    So, I was on his "Board of Trustees" for a while there, but I resigned after Father wanted us to sign papers leaving his chapel to the SSPX.  He felt it was the best option to ensure that the people there would be taken care of.  I warned him that the SSPX would likely sell the property and tell everyone to just go to St. Peregrine.  He just felt as though he had no choice, but I politely declined to sign the papers and resigned from the Board.

    So, during his hip surgery, he needed a replacement and asked the SSPX.  SSPX hemmed and hawed and then finally offered to send a priest for like a 3PM Mass for a couple weeks.  He threatened to take the SSPX off his property will.  So on Christmas day, Bishop Tissier showed up for the 9AM Mass.  Money talks for the SSPX.  But Father was NOT happy, since that was a harbinger of things to come when he passes away.

    So, I recently heard from my brother ... and I don't have all the details ... but the SSPX tried to extort $250,000 from Father Carley.  SSPX St. Peregrine chapel is building a new church (quite a bit closer to his chapel) and evidently the rectory/priory there alone will cost $500,000. So they told Father they wanted half of that amount from him as a condition for taking care of his chapel in the future.  St. Peregrine is another story.  They had raised close to a million dollars over the years in various fund-raising campaigns for a new church, but those funds evaporated ("embezzled" away so to speak by the SSPX, probably diverted to the seminary project).  So they had to start over again with a new fundraiser for the new chapel.  Lots of shady stuff going on there.  I'll try to get details on this latest extortion attempt.

    Father Carley is incredibly frugal ... to a fault perhaps.  I remember serving Mass and having to be alert lest his candles burned down so low that they would tip over (and potentially start a fire).  He burned those things down to nothing.  So Father has a lot of capital saved away from over the years, and the SSPX want to get their hands on it.  Over the years, he acquired a couple of the homes adjacent to the church and used them for various purposes, such as where the Brothers who taught at the school lived, and at a different time a couple of sisters.  One of them is a really nice house.

    I should think that the Resistance might get in touch with him, since Father Carley is absolutely of The Resistance mindset (even borderline sedevacantist).  He's actually on very friendly terms with Father Jenkins (who has a chapel in the Cleveland area).  Not only does Fr. Jenkins not have any issues with his people going to Fr. Carley's for Mass, but a woman from his chapel actually taught at Father Carley's school for several years.

    Father Carley is a very simple man, and not much for theological discussion.  All he knows is "Novus Ordo bad and not Catholic.  New Mass invalid and displeasing to God."
    Sounds like a great priest. Not many of them left.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Minnesota

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2363
    • Reputation: +1342/-643
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #197 on: July 17, 2021, 12:08:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The only good thing about this is that hopefully (wishful thinking), the people who wanted the Society of St. Pius X to join Rome realize how bad of an idea it would've been.

    Either that or they're a complete idiot.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #198 on: July 17, 2021, 12:25:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • The only good thing about this is that hopefully (wishful thinking), the people who wanted the Society of St. Pius X to join Rome realize how bad of an idea it would've been.

    Either that or they're a complete idiot.

    That got mentioned over at The Remnant in the comments under the initial Motu Proprio article  ;)
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2897/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #199 on: July 17, 2021, 12:27:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • No:

    On p.8 of this thread, I predicted that faced with SSPX vs EWTN-style NOM alternatives, most would opt for the latter because of hang-ups about canonical issues.

    A couple posts later, Stanley predicted that many would go Byzantine, to which I agreed.
    You’re kidding right?  You’re like a child. :facepalm:
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #200 on: July 17, 2021, 12:27:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • You’re kidding right?  You’re like a child. :facepalm:

    The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #201 on: July 17, 2021, 12:31:04 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    You need to work on charity and pride, friend.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #202 on: July 17, 2021, 12:35:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!5
  • You need to work on charity and pride, friend.

    The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #203 on: July 17, 2021, 12:42:46 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    Pride. I'll pray for you.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #204 on: July 17, 2021, 12:46:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • Pride. I'll pray for you.

    The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32897
    • Reputation: +29171/-596
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #205 on: July 17, 2021, 01:10:01 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!

    Or, the pot calling the kettle black.

    As a third-party observer (albeit not totally impartial) I don't see Sean's opponents as being significantly different in their words, tactics, or rhetoric.

    Reader, do you see a difference? I don't.

    Let's be real: if Sean is proud, then so are his opponents on this thread. I don't see much difference in tone, words, or vehemence. Both have hit below the belt (personal jabs, ribs, attacks, sarcasm). Both are quoting Doctors of the Church. Both are thoroughly convinced they are correct.

    How is one proud, but the other is not? Explain it to me.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32897
    • Reputation: +29171/-596
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #206 on: July 17, 2021, 01:14:27 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Father Carley is a very simple man, and not much for theological discussion.  All he knows is "Novus Ordo bad and not Catholic.  New Mass invalid and displeasing to God."
    Sounds like the essence of the Traditional Movement right there, from 1970 - present.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline andy

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 354
    • Reputation: +95/-52
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #207 on: July 17, 2021, 01:46:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My guess:
    10% SSPX
    35% Eastern
    55% NOM
    0% sede
    0% Resistance
    My guess, in short term a little will change https://www.ncregister.com/cna/archbishop-cordileone-traditional-latin-mass-will-continue-in-san-francisco
    In long term: NOM will shrink further

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5846
    • Reputation: +4694/-490
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #208 on: July 17, 2021, 01:47:01 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Father Carley should call the CMRI.  

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3852/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #209 on: July 17, 2021, 01:47:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • I didn't see if this was posted here, but everyone knows about TM. I had no idea there were 41 Latin Masses in Detroit. That's a lot! I thought New York was good with less than ten.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.