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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 17272 times)

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2021, 07:10:03 PM »
Actually that would be the worst thing to happen because then people will be tricked into remaining in the Vatican II sect.  We don't need another "more conservative/less Modernist" "pope".
I am not a sedevacantist (not that I don't have my doubts), and I do not reject the visible, institutional Church of Rome as a non-Catholic sect.  Much as I detest the thought, I accept Francis as Pope, wish I didn't have to, but you're either a sedevacantist or you're not (making allowance for some theories of "the see not fully vacant, yet not fully occupied either", materialiter-formaliter, Cassiciacuм thesis, et al), and I can't make that call in favor of sede vacante or ecclesia vacante.  I very well could be wrong.

Matthew is right.  No one knows.  It is up to Almighty God to sort all this out.  I'm reminded here of the quote from Anglican "cleric" William Porcher DuBose that life is like walking barefoot at midnight through a barnyard full of chicken ordure.  That just about nails it.  I have to believe that Our Lord will not hold it to one's charge if, despite one's best efforts, one happens to step the wrong way.

Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2021, 07:15:57 PM »
Uhm, it's right there in Bergoglio's letter.
Bergoglio just abrogated the Tridentine Rite.

But you guys will desperately keep your blinders on and keep insisting that the Tridentine Rite was never abrogated, and that's why the NOM doesn't violate the Church's disciplinary infallibility.
Agreed.  I've read through both the Moto and the accompanying letter, and can't understand why some on this thread are insisting nothing really has changed, or that those celebrating the Mass of the Ages will be allowed to continue to do so.  In his accompanying letter where he explicitly states his motivations, Bergoglio clearly outlines:
"Indications about how to proceed in your dioceses are chiefly dictated by two principles: on the one hand, to provide for the good of those who are rooted in the previous form of celebration and need to return in due time to the Roman Rite promulgated by Saints Paul VI and John Paul II, and, on the other hand, to discontinue the erection of new personal parishes tied more to the desire and wishes of individual priests than to the real need of the 'holy People of God.'"


Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2021, 07:58:36 PM »
Another day, another round of betrayal and trying to make sense of a Crisis that won't go away until the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart occurs. Ladies and gentlemen, I may not agree with everything being said here but I heartily sympathize. Whether you believe Bergog Magog is Pope or not, it's still terrible. To me, not quite as horrible as the Pachamama outrage, but any reiteration of what has already been variously enforced over the years still cuts deep.  

No one has the authority to overturn what the Catholic Church has already established, not even the Pope. But then I am familiar with the Ouroboros of argumentation the leads from that to how we shouldn't ever see a Pope get to that point to what constitutes the "Church" to what constitutes the Magisterium as Pope rightly leads it to the importance of it's visibility and it's continuity. My own theory is that Ancient Pagan Rome has come full circle: From Rome, to Constantinople, to Moscow and back to Rome again. Russia inherited those ancient errors and made them her own and now every corner of the world thinks and believes as she does. I don't think any of us are quite up to task to write up a corrective docuмent which will surely be adopted in a future Restoration, but I think it's only right that it will come from whosoever be worthy to be named Holy Father when the time comes. 

I only have one question in regards to the current visible/acting Pope: will there be a body to bury when Divine Justice visits him? The bell tolls today for all who call themselves Catholic just as in other times when our visible leaders (accepted or not) play the part of Judas in open view over the past 50 years.

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2021, 08:05:14 PM »

Quote
"Indications about how to proceed in your dioceses are chiefly dictated by two principles: on the one hand, to provide for the good of those who are rooted in the previous form of celebration and need to return in due time to the Roman Rite promulgated by Saints Paul VI and John Paul II, and, on the other hand, to discontinue the erection of new personal parishes tied more to the desire and wishes of individual priests than to the real need of the 'holy People of God.'"

All of this is directed at Modernist bishops, for their Modernist parishes, from the Modernist pope.  It has nothing to do with Tradition.  If you go to a parish church, then you have to abide by these regulations.  If you're a Trad, how does this affect you?  It doesn't.
.
It's going back to the same regulations that existed from the 80s til the 2007 motu.  Maybe a little stricter now, but still, about the same.  Before 2007, there were not many TLMs in parishes.

Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2021, 08:25:00 PM »

IMAGE: A fan kneels at the entrance to the first Mexico's church in memory of soccer legend Diego Maradona. Photograph: Edgard Garrido/Reuters 
A pair of large vases bearing soccer balls stand at the entrance to Mexico's first Maradonian church and an image of Diego Maradona wearing a charro hat welcomes worshippers.
Inside the church, the Catholic Stations of the Cross are recreated with photos of Maradona from his childhood to emblematic meetings with the late Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Pope Francis.