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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 17193 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2021, 07:29:59 AM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 16, 2021, 07:23:23 AM
That’s absolutely right! I remember about 20 years ago an SSPX priest refused to give me a blessing when he found out I held the sedevacantist position. After about an hour of debate, I finally said to him; “OK , JPII is a Catholic, but I’m not?” ......... He gave me his blessing!
I can hear dear Father Collins singing now....
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2021, 07:36:44 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 16, 2021, 06:51:47 AM
According to this, TLM are banned from all parochial/parish churches. 

I'm not sure what that provision means.  It'll probably be the cause of much confusion.  On the face of it, 90% of all the diocesan Motu Masses would have to be shut down ... as of this coming Sunday.  I doubt that's going to happen.  But we'll see.  I believe that the intent is for the establishment of NEW groups and that the older ones seem grandfathered in ... provided that the Bishop determines they're not hostile to the NOM.  What that means is also vague.  One bishop might just ask the priest, "Are you against the NOM?"  Answer:  "no".  Bishop: "OK".  I'm sure you'll find about 50% of Motarians who are hostile to the NOM.  Will each attendee be investigated and forced to sign a paper pledging allegiance to the NOM, to Bergoglio, and to Pachamama worship?

At the end of the day, it'll just be whatever the bishop wants to do ... as it always has been.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2021, 07:36:54 AM »
Quote
They could have done this at any time.

Yes, in theory, they could have.  But they didn't.  Now they are. 
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2021, 07:40:08 AM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 16, 2021, 07:17:13 AM
The Church CANNOT  lead you into error, period.

THIS^^^

Not that EVERYTHING that comes from the hierarchy is infallible, but this crosses a line.  They're clearly forcing the NOM on everybody.

So what of the R&R position that the NOM as never properly "promulgated" and the TLM never "abolished" and that's why the NOM is not an issue with regard to the Church's disciplinary infallibility?

In many ways, Bergoglio has unwittingly done much good.  He's ripped off the mask and the veneer of Catholicism from the Conciliar Church.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2021, 07:40:59 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure what that provision means.  It'll probably be the cause of much confusion.  On the face of it, 90% of all the diocesan Motu Masses would have to be shut down ... as of this coming Sunday.  I doubt that's going to happen.  But we'll see. 
I agree it's not going to happen overnight.
.

Quote
I believe that the intent is for the establishment of NEW groups and that the older ones seem grandfathered in
No, because the motu says that no new establishments are to be created.  FSSP and ICK (and other smaller ones) are it.
.

Quote
... provided that the Bishop determines they're not hostile to the NOM.  What that means is also vague.  One bishop might just ask the priest, "Are you against the NOM?"  Answer:  "no".  Bishop: "OK".  I'm sure you'll find about 50% of Motarians who are hostile to the NOM.  Will each attendee be investigated and forced to sign a paper pledging allegiance to the NOM, to Bergoglio, and to Pachamama worship?

I think it'll be much more than a verbal/written agreement.  As in the case of the French Bishop, such priests will have to concelebrate new masses and/or attend such services. 
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