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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 12018 times)

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Offline andy

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2021, 10:24:33 AM »
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    • Good. As one FSSPX priest from non English speaking district said about month ago (in an anticipation of this MP), hopefully people will wake up and will see how bad previous MP was. The days of the rotten compromise must end.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #61 on: July 16, 2021, 10:58:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 16, 2021, 10:02:17 AM
    One pope for two churches (Tissier/Avrille)
    That’s the best you’ve got? Aside from the fact that it doesn’t give an answer to the problem, how is it possible that you claim the sedevacantist position is untenable?
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #62 on: July 16, 2021, 11:00:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 16, 2021, 09:59:19 AM
    Ok, you tell me, is Bergoglio the head of the Catholic Church or conciliar church?

    Interesting theory on this suppression in the latest Remnant editorial:

    “Over the past 15 months, Traditionalists weren’t intimidated by the Lunatics of Davos. We stayed open. We never missed Mass, and the Traditional Latin Mass movement is booming.

    And this is why our ɠƖobaƖıst papal tool—the Pachamama Pope—is coming after the thing that united that resistance.”

    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/5472-we-resist-francis-to-his-face-pachamama-pope-anathematizes-latin-mass
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #63 on: July 16, 2021, 11:06:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 16, 2021, 10:08:37 AM
    Well, you are far more magnanimous than many of the sedes who post here. For some of them, sedeism (and sedewhateverism) is the only answer, and those who don't agree are not Catholic. This is known as dogmatic sedevacantism.

    Though their vocalization of this view has not been so dominant lately, it will rear its ugly head eventually. It always does. They create a lot of division; far more, IMO, than those of us who take +ABL's view of the Crisis in the Church. If Trads want to take the sede stance, that's fine, but don't be pushy about it with those who don't accept it (I understand that you yourself are not pushy).

    The division in the trad world isn't going to go away. We are too stubborn. That's why I believe that traditional Catholicism isn't necessarily the answer to the Crisis in the Church. But we can still love God with all of our heart and soul, and strive to speak the truth with charity, no matter what stance we take.
    Whoa.  If not, then what is? 
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #64 on: July 16, 2021, 11:06:56 AM »
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    • How hypocritical when there are various foreign language novus Ordo Masses in English speaking countries...which does nothing but divide and discriminate.  

    Those who go to foreign language novus Ordo Masses know English and don’t want associate with their English speaking counterparts.  

    Latin did unite the world.  

    But why listen to a man who reject Jesus Christ??? 
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    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #65 on: July 16, 2021, 11:10:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 16, 2021, 10:05:45 AM
    I agree.  This thread is proof that instead of all of us just proclaiming, "Screw you, new-rome, Quo Primum is the answer", it turns into a sede-non-sede argument, which really, is of secondary importance to the TLM.  But such is human nature...
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #66 on: July 16, 2021, 11:14:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 16, 2021, 10:58:14 AM
    That’s the best you’ve got? Aside from the fact that it doesn’t give an answer to the problem, how is it possible that you claim the sedevacantist position is untenable?

    Uh, yeah, it’s a direct answer to your question.  But if you think the arguments in support of it are easily refuted, then I await your rebuttal.

    In response to your second question, only an idiot can believe is a pope less church for 3 generations (and counting).  
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #67 on: July 16, 2021, 11:16:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on July 16, 2021, 11:06:35 AM
    Whoa.  If not, then what is?

    Penance (or chastisement, if we won’t do it voluntarily).
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #68 on: July 16, 2021, 11:18:33 AM »
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    • This thing is as dense as a homemade carrot cake.  Thoughts, in no particular order:

    *  He's trying to abrogate Quo primum without coming right out and saying it.
    *  No more dedicated TLM personal parishes.
    *  Very confusing comment about where the TLM will be allowed.
    *  Not clear whether the TLM will continue to be considered an "extraordinary form".
    *  To his credit (perhaps), he wants a more reverent, rubrically celebrated NOM without so many improvisations.  Been hearing this for 50 years now.
    *  And he wants that idealized NOM to be "THE Mass" of the Roman Rite.
    *  I've heard talk of him abdicating very soon.  Perhaps this is a "slap on the way out"?
    *  His successor could put all of this through the shredder on the day of his election.  Or not.

    Maybe he'll soon be gone, one way or the other.  Hope so.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #69 on: July 16, 2021, 11:18:42 AM »
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    • What does this have to do with sedevacantism?

    Here's an official Magisterial act where Bergoglio:

    1) abrogates the Tridentine Mass
    and
    2) declares that those who reject the legitimacy of the new reforms are outside the Church

    We've had to put up with the R&R garbage about how it's "not mandatory," the "TLM was never abrogated" etc. etc. ad nauseam.

    Now that ship has sailed, folks.

    Bergoglio has just outlawed Traditional Catholicism, abrogated the Tridentine Mass, and made the NOM explicitly mandatory.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #70 on: July 16, 2021, 11:19:04 AM »
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    • Quote
    That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. - St. John 17:21-23

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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #71 on: July 16, 2021, 11:26:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 16, 2021, 11:18:42 AM
    What does this have to do with sedevacantism?

    Here's an official Magisterial act where Bergoglio:

    1) abrogates the Tridentine Mass
    and
    2) declares that those who reject the legitimacy of the new reforms are outside the Church

    We've had to put up with the R&R garbage about how it's "not mandatory," the "TLM was never abrogated" etc. etc. ad nauseam.

    Now that ship has sailed, folks.

    Bergoglio has just outlawed Traditional Catholicism, abrogated the Tridentine Mass, and made the NOM explicitly mandatory.
    🙈🙉🙊
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #72 on: July 16, 2021, 11:28:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 16, 2021, 11:18:42 AM
    What does this have to do with sedevacantism?

    Here's an official Magisterial act where Bergoglio:

    1) abrogates the Tridentine Mass
    and
    2) declares that those who reject the legitimacy of the new reforms are outside the Church

    We've had to put up with the R&R garbage about how it's "not mandatory," the "TLM was never abrogated" etc. etc. ad nauseam.

    Now that ship has sailed, folks.

    Bergoglio has just outlawed Traditional Catholicism, abrogated the Tridentine Mass, and made the NOM explicitly mandatory.


    The sedes think/pretend every new Roman outrage compels sedevacantism.

    They’ve been saying the S.O.S. for 50 years.

    In reality, the new situation only brings those who care back to 1984/8.

    As far as not being able to resist a pope, here’s their (misappropriated) champion saying the opposite:

    “Just as it is licit to resist a Pontiff who attacks the body, so also is it licit to resist him who attacks souls or destroys the civil order or above all, tries to destroy the Church. I say that it is licit to resist him by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will. It is not licit, however, to judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior.” (De Romano Pontifice, II.29.)

    PLEASE let one of them cite Fr. Cekada’s article as a rebuttal (which, whatever Fr. Cekada thought, did not accomplish nullifying this quote, as it set out to).
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #73 on: July 16, 2021, 11:50:54 AM »
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    • The fact that your Lord had to pray we’d all be one indicates there’d be a problem.  In this instance it looks like +Bp. Williamson is correct.  We’re going to need individual, loosely affiliated resistance groups to combat these abominations of rules.  An alternative top-down hierarchy will be easy to find, infiltrate, and dismantle.  Do the same to a resistance group here or there, and even if you shoot them down, it hardly matters.  A new one one will crop up.  
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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
    « Reply #74 on: July 16, 2021, 11:54:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on July 16, 2021, 07:29:59 AM
    I can hear dear Father Collins singing now....
    I miss him and singing...  😔
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