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Author Topic: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived  (Read 17370 times)

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2021, 03:50:20 PM »
//Do Eastern Rites have priests who are married with children?
//

Often yes



Offline Matthew

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2021, 03:53:52 PM »
//Do Eastern Rites have priests who are married with children?
//

Often yes

Enough reason to avoid the Eastern Rite.

A priest is not a part-time job, or something you can do 8-hours a day and then punch out and return to your normal life.

It is your WHOLE life. To do it well, you need to be celibate (single), as the apostles were.

Refer to St. Paul's teachings on celibacy. He speaks of how divided married people are. And he's absolutely correct.

I think my opinion matters more than most, having been a tonsured cleric for a year, a seminarian for 3 1/3 years, and married for the past 16 years. But I also read many books on the priesthood, especially writings of the saints. So I got a real sense of the grave obligations and duties of the priest.

I'll give you just ONE hint: if even one lamb of your flock goes to hell, your own salvation is in jeopardy. How about signing up for THAT 40 hour a week job, layman? Along with keeping your wife happy, planning family vacations, guiding your teens through adolescence, being in charge of your whole household, including disciplining and educating your children, finances, maintenance, interfacing with the World/big-picture planning, etc.

And "pastor's son" or "pastor's daughter" is almost a meme in the Protestant world -- they always get in legal and/or moral trouble since the pressure is SO HIGH to be perfect. And probably because they are somewhat neglected by Mom and Dad trying to run a church.

Last but not least, I'm a dad of 9 children (so far). Each child needs a certain amount of one-on-one attention. I don't know who needs it more -- the sons or the daughters. If daughters don't get enough attention from Dad, they get Daddy Issues and end up pregnant out-of-wedlock at 15. And the sons need personal guidance from the father into manhood. See the life of St. John Bosco. It involves discipline, but also attention and love. Yes, I'm not mincing words here.

The priest, meanwhile, needs to be STUDYING, STUDYING the Faith constantly so he has stuff at the tip of his tongue (brain) during sermons, discussions with the Faithful, and Confessions. Otherwise his sermons will be little more than cheesy e-mail forwards. He needs to live and breathe the spiritual life, swimming in the supernatural as a fish swims in the ocean. So he needs to read Holy Scripture daily and read non-intellectual spiritual books as well: books on the Spiritual Life, lives of the saints, devotional books. He needs to make a daily meditation AT LEAST once a day, plus pray the Divine Office. And of course, daily Mass and Rosary, plus any other personal prayers. I just don't see how a busy father-of-a-family can reach this high bar.

They're two different, completely conflicting vocations.


Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2021, 03:59:33 PM »
WHOREgαy BERGOGLIO.  

CM, Perfect.  :laugh2: 

Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2021, 04:23:17 PM »
Not one of you wanted to touch the JST quote (the legitimacy of the pope is de fide).
I was going to just respond with a laughing head, because it is so funny. But someone else pointed out how round this argument is. I am puzzled you make such a strange argument. You are a smart guy and have studied logic. Come on, Sean, think about this one a little harder, please.
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Nor did any of you attempt to refute the fact that Bellarmine was not among the authors writing major dissertations on heretical popes (but all 3 who did oppose him), but only commented upon what others had written..

St. Robert Bellarmine was a Doctor of the Church and a saint. Neither of the three guys you are talking about are either of those things. And you really think St. Robert didn't write a dissertation on heretical popes? St. Robert wrote an entire book -- a rather long book -- called De Romano Pontifice. You've never heard of this?
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Nor the Billuart quote, stating the more common opinion is that even a manifestly heretical pope maintains jurisdiction until his heresy is declared by the Church (with which Cajetan, Suarez, and JST -the only major authors to write dissertations on the subject- agree).

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I guess if you define the people on your side to be the "only major authors" to write a dissertation on the question, you can win any argument, but it helps if you are not arguing against a Doctor of the Church.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bergoglio's New Motu Proprio on TLM Has Arrived
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2021, 04:47:19 PM »
Enough reason to avoid the Eastern Rite.

A priest is not a part-time job, or something you can do 8-hours a day and then punch out and return to your normal life.

While the practical considerations you raise are valid, I have to disagree with your first statement.

Firstly, the Church has always allowed it for the Eastern Rites.  Secondly, whether the priest can save his soul is between him and God.

In many Traditional Catholic chapels, the priests show up for two-three hours per week, hear Confessions, offer Mass, and then get on a flight to the next place.

So as far as that chapel is concerned, the priests is VERY "part-time".  So what's the difference between that and having a priest for, say, 40 hours per week?

If people need the Sacraments, and if the priest has the Catholic faith, etc. then his being married is not "enough" reason to avoid the Eastern Rite.

There are in fact SOME pluses.  Priests who have to deal with their wife and children might be in a better position to understand some of the dynamics involved when people come to them with marital problems and problems with their kids.