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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: amor vincit on September 15, 2019, 06:44:08 PM

Title: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: amor vincit on September 15, 2019, 06:44:08 PM
Coup D'Etat:The Forced Resignation of Benedict XVI
Friends, Jorge Bergoglio aka Francis, the Great Pretender, who has bewitched you to think he is the Pope...is in fact not the real Pope! The explanation is simple: Benedict XVI did not resign of his own free will.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftn1)He was threatened—The St. Gallen Mafia threatened to αssαssιnαtҽ him (by poisoning) if he did not resign within a year, that is by February 12, 2013. This was a group of Marxist ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Cardinals and Bishops who colluded to stack the deck against Cardinal Ratzinger from becoming the pope. They did not want Benedict to get elected in 2005, so they formed this group that met once a year in a small city in Switzerland called Sankt Gallen. This group of thirty Cardinals tried to block Pope Benedict from being elected in favor of their own candidate whom they had chosen, Jorge Bergoglio, who was a Marxist ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ modernist like themselves. They failed in 2005, but they succeeded in forcing his resignation in 2013.
The whole sordid story began when Pope Benedict established a Commission to investigate leaks of reserved and confidential docuмents to the news media (what later became known as the famous VatiLeaks scandal).
According to Jose Alberto Villasana, [2] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftn2)a canon lawyer, a theologian, and an advisor to the secretary for external relations between the Vatican and Mexico, it was not the Pope’s butler who leaked the Vatican docuмents but a personage who called himself “The Crow”, who is later discovered to be none other than the Dean of the College of Cardinals Angelo Cardinal Sodano. One of the secret docuмents of this dossier was the dire warning of a planned assassination against Pope Benedict.  This plot was made public by Cardinal Paolo Romeo, the Archbishop of Palermo in Sicily, while on a visit to China in November 2011.
Pope Benedict XVI took this threat very seriously and formed a commission of three Cardinals to investigate where this threat had come from and if it was real, that is to say, whether he had to take it seriously. After a six month investigation, the commission reported back to the pope that the threat was indeed very real. That is when he decided to resign.
For fear of being exposed as the instigators of this plot, the partisans of Jorge Bergoglio deliver an ultimatum to Benedict that:
 1) he must abdicate the chair of Peter within a year—that is by February 12th, 2013, or he will be αssαssιnαtҽd.
2) He must not publish the dossier of the Commission's findings.
3) And he must not disclose anything of his forced resignation, and he must continue to affirm that he resigned freely.
Benedict acceded to their request but leaves a trail of clues (of breadcrumbs, like in the Hansel and Gretel story) that he was coerced to resign. Below is his letter of resignation.
Dear Brothers,
 
 I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry.  I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.
 
 Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects.  And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.
 
 From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
 
 BENEDICTUS PP XVI
 
 Here is my comment on this resignation: he renounces only the ministry of Bishop of Rome!
 On February 11th, 2013, Benedict turns over only the Petrine ministry but not the munus, the papal office to his successor-to-be. He retains his title of Successor of St. Peter and concedes the title of Supreme Pontiff to the other. He calls for a Conclave to elect a new Supreme Pontiff. With this act, Benedict sends a warning to the Catholic world that his resignation is forced, and therefore invalid. He also spices up the Latin text with several errors to highlight the glaring fact that he is not acting freely.
 
 On February 28th, alarmed that his signs (bread crumbs) are not being heeded and that he has no friends in the Vatican, repeats that he is only surrendering the ministry and not the Petrine office. He then decides to fly to Castel Gandolfo where he hopes to be rescued by Catholic forces in order to stop the resignation outcome.  Jorge Bergoglio realizes that Benedict is too dangerous to leave him at Castel Gandolfo, so he forces Benedict's return to the Vatican as his prisoner.
 You may be shocked to know that Pope— so-called “Pope” Francis — does not even believe in the real Christian God. [3] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftn3)  He believes God is a force in the universe.  Like Father Paul Kramer says, he's a “Pandeist”. He believes in a mixture of Theism and Deism, but not the real Christian God, not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not God the father of Jesus Christ, His only Son.
 Pope Francis was eventually put in because they threatened Benedict's life and so he partially resigned but not fully, so his resignation is invalid. He only resigned the administrative part of the papacy, but he kept the munus, which is just a Latin word for the papal office, which he retained, like the prayerful part of the papacy. That's why he's dressed in white; that's why he wears the papal ring; that's why he goes by the name of Benedict XVI.

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftnref1)The Imprisonment of Pope Benedict XVI https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2019/07/08/the-imprisonment-of-pope-benedict-xvi/ (https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2019/07/08/the-imprisonment-of-pope-benedict-xvi/)
 The Anti-Benedict Conspiracy by  ROD DREHER (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/author/rod-dreher) • September 25, 2015 (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-anti-benedict-conspiracy/)
[2] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftnref2)Hypothesis on the Resignation of Pope Benedict XVI http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2019/04/04/resignation/
[3] (http://file:///C:/Users/amor320/Docuмents/antipope_francis%203.docx#_ftnref3)Why this Catholic priest Paul Kramer does not think Pope Francis is the true pope. https://gloria.tv/article/2cT4DpYn94DW3JJEGZyLZ4NFs
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on September 15, 2019, 06:45:39 PM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on September 15, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
 :facepalm:  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Praeter on September 15, 2019, 10:04:40 PM
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: amor vincit on September 18, 2019, 08:24:45 PM
And he actually thought that some Cardinals and Bishops would side with him when they would notice that he intentionally made mistakes in drafting his resignation letter. It's an invalid resignation; it was deliberately done that way. He was hoping that many of the Cardinals and Bishops would rally to him, but nothing happened. He was left with no support.  And so, he's now living in the Vatican mainly living a retired life but remains the Pope.
This Pope Francis is a big fraud, as I said in one of my previous videos.  St. Francis of Assisi predicted in a prophecy that there would arise a non-canonically elected pope who would not be Pope because there's something invalid in his election. Benedict is still the Pope.
And Francis is guilty of so many heresies that there are too many to enumerate (I would say they number in the hundreds; you can take that to the bank). He is constantly blaspheming—and I do not say this lightly. He said that Jesus failed in his death on the cross. Well, Jesus didn't fail; He actually, through his passion and death, saved the world. That was an absolute victory!
And he's saying that Jesus probably had to ask forgiveness from his parents for leaving them in Jerusalem when he was 12 years old.  But Jesus is God, and so Jesus could not have asked for forgiveness. That's impossible! It just could not be that He abandons his putative father St. Joseph and his real mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
And Francis goes on to say you don't need Christ to be saved. He claims that are many roads to God.
Another heresy is that you can be an atheist and you can still be saved. All you must do is good works! This is a total heresy! He asserts that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are made by God that way, and they can be saved too, as long as they are of goodwill. And Francis actually says— and sometimes contradicts himself! — says there is no hell! And this is totally false. Hell is real! —that this was shown to the children at Fatima. This is the first secret of the three secrets of Fatima.
And Francis believes that other religions are willed by God, that all religions are willed by God. This is heresy! There's only one Church founded by Jesus Christ, and it's the Roman Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation. That's a dogma of the Catholic Church that can never be changed. There's only one true church; there's only one way to God— that is through Jesus Christ who is our Savior and Redeemer. There is no other way. All the other religions are false— including the Baptists and all the other Protestant denominations. The Jєωιѕн Faith is also no longer valid. It was at one time, but it no longer is valid. All must come to Jesus Christ; all must convert to the Catholic Church.
Now he's planning the Amazon Synod that will be held very soon in October 2019 where he's hoping to institute married clergy, to allow married clergy, and even to allow women priests. This guy is an arch-heretic; you might as well call him an atheist because he doesn't believe in a real personal God who is the Creator of everything. He even blasphemes God by saying that God doesn't have a magic wand that he can create anything out of nothing! That is superstition. Imagine that! That is sheer blasphemy! I mean the guy is a real blasphemer!  He's a pervert; he's a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, and he appoints ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Cardinals and Bishops. So, he's very evil.
So, I point this out to you and repeat: Pope Benedict did not validly resign; he knew he was not validly resigning, and so by that very fact Francis is not a valid Pope. Therefore, he's an antipope.
And he's probably the antipope of history. There's never been anyone like Francis— so perverted, so evil and destructive of the Catholic Church. Yeah, St. Francis actually predicted he will seemingly destroy the Catholic Church.
But let us hope that we do not have to go underground like the first Christians who lived in the catacombs. Pray that we do not have to go back to the catacombs. The situation is that serious. I suspect there's going to be a real confrontation between the real loyal Cardinals and Bishops and “Pope” Francis (and I put that in quotation marks) at this coming Synod in October. So, let's just see — we'll wait and pray in the meantime. We must spell it out very clearly: Francis is an antipope; He was never a real Pope, because Benedict did not resign properly, and had no intention of resigning properly.
Apparently, even some of the German Cardinals and Bishops said they would break away from the Church if he didn’t resign. And I remember that, I believe it was the Cardinal Archbishop of Palermo, Italy who was in China visiting there, and he in 2012, a full year before the resignation of Pope Benedict, said there was a threat to Pope Benedict's life, that he said this like, a full year before in November 2012.
So anyway, let's go forward and tell the truth: we have only one pope, Benedict XVI. Francis is an invalid Pope, and never was a Pope!
Bibliography

You may be shocked to know that Pope— so-called “Pope” Francis — does not even believe in the real Christian God.  He believes God is a force in the universe.  Like Father Paul Kramer says, he's a “Pandeist”. He believes in a mixture of Theism and Deism, but not the real Christian God, not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not God the father of Jesus Christ, His only Son.
Pope Francis was eventually put in because they threatened Benedict's life and so he partially resigned but not fully, so his resignation is invalid. He only resigned the administrative part of the papacy, but he kept the munus, which is just a Latin word for the papal office, which he retained, like the prayerful part of the papacy. That's why he's dressed in white; that's why he wears the papal ring; that's why he goes by the name of Benedict XVI.
And he actually thought that some Cardinals and Bishops would side with him when they would notice that he intentionally made mistakes in drafting his resignation letter. It's an invalid resignation; it was deliberately done that way. He was hoping that many of the Cardinals and Bishops would rally to him, but nothing happened. He was left with no support.  And so, he's now living in the Vatican mainly living a retired life but remains the Pope.
This Pope Francis is a big fraud, as I said in one of my previous videos.  St. Francis of Assisi predicted in a prophecy that there would arise a non-canonically elected pope who would not be Pope because there's something invalid in his election. Benedict is still the Pope.
And Francis is guilty of so many heresies that there are too many to enumerate (I would say they number in the hundreds; you can take that to the bank). He is constantly blaspheming—and I do not say this lightly. He said that Jesus failed in his death on the cross. Well, Jesus didn't fail; He actually, through his passion and death, saved the world. That was an absolute victory!
And he's saying that Jesus probably had to ask forgiveness from his parents for leaving them in Jerusalem when he was 12 years old.  But Jesus is God, and so Jesus could not have asked for forgiveness. That's impossible! It just could not be that He abandons his putative father St. Joseph and his real mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
And Francis goes on to say you don't need Christ to be saved. He claims that are many roads to God.
Another heresy is that you can be an atheist and you can still be saved. All you must do is good works! This is a total heresy! He asserts that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are made by God that way, and they can be saved too, as long as they are of goodwill. And Francis actually says— and sometimes contradicts himself! — says there is no hell! And this is totally false. Hell is real! —that this was shown to the children at Fatima. This is the first secret of the three secrets of Fatima.
And Francis believes that other religions are willed by God, that all religions are willed by God. This is heresy! There's only one Church founded by Jesus Christ, and it's the Roman Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation. That's a dogma of the Catholic Church that can never be changed. There's only one true church; there's only one way to God— that is through Jesus Christ who is our Savior and Redeemer. There is no other way. All the other religions are false— including the Baptists and all the other Protestant denominations. The Jєωιѕн Faith is also no longer valid. It was at one time, but it no longer is valid. All must come to Jesus Christ; all must convert to the Catholic Church.
Now he's planning the Amazon Synod that will be held very soon in October 2019 where he's hoping to institute married clergy, to allow married clergy, and even to allow women priests. This guy is an arch-heretic; you might as well call him an atheist because he doesn't believe in a real personal God who is the Creator of everything. He even blasphemes God by saying that God doesn't have a magic wand that he can create anything out of nothing! That is superstition. Imagine that! That is sheer blasphemy! I mean the guy is a real blasphemer!  He's a pervert; he's a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, and he appoints ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Cardinals and Bishops. So, he's very evil.
So, I point this out to you and repeat: Pope Benedict did not validly resign; he knew he was not validly resigning, and so by that very fact Francis is not a valid Pope. Therefore, he's an antipope.
And he's probably the antipope of history. There's never been anyone like Francis— so perverted, so evil and destructive of the Catholic Church. Yeah, St. Francis actually predicted he will seemingly destroy the Catholic Church.
But let us hope that we do not have to go underground like the first Christians who lived in the catacombs. Pray that we do not have to go back to the catacombs. The situation is that serious. I suspect there's going to be a real confrontation between the real loyal Cardinals and Bishops and “Pope” Francis (and I put that in quotation marks) at this coming Synod in October. So, let's just see — we'll wait and pray in the meantime. We must spell it out very clearly: Francis is an antipope; He was never a real Pope, because Benedict did not resign properly, and had no intention of resigning properly.
Apparently, even some of the German Cardinals and Bishops said they would break away from the Church if he didn’t resign. And I remember that, I believe it was the Cardinal Archbishop of Palermo, Italy who was in China visiting there, and he in 2012, a full year before the resignation of Pope Benedict, said there was a threat to Pope Benedict's life, that he said this like, a full year before in November 2012.
So anyway, let's go forward and tell the truth: we have only one pope, Benedict XVI. Francis is an invalid Pope, and never was a Pope!
Bibliography
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Pax Vobis on September 28, 2019, 09:51:13 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-says-he-felt-bitterness-when-introduced-to-catholic-converts-in-africa (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-says-he-felt-bitterness-when-introduced-to-catholic-converts-in-africa)

.
Benedict is the same as Francis when it comes to their anti-catholic views on conversions.  Both are wrong and evil. 
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Marys Anawim on September 28, 2019, 10:40:51 PM
I do believe that pope Benedict was forced to resign and that francis is not the true pope...there is also the prophecy of Anne Catherine emerich about 2 popes and the mason sect and the Pope weeping because he could not do what they wanted...I interpreted that to mean all the agendas going through with francis that pope Benedict would not do...although he did do alot with vatican II...not sure if he really repented of that and perhaps that's why he called for the Tlm to be said worldwide...which is utterly ridiculous that it was not allowed
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: nottambula on September 29, 2019, 05:58:17 AM
Quote from: Pax Vobis on September 28, 2019, 09:51:13 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-says-he-felt-bitterness-when-introduced-to-catholic-converts-in-africa (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-says-he-felt-bitterness-when-introduced-to-catholic-converts-in-africa)

.
Benedict is the same as Francis when it comes to their anti-catholic views on conversions.  Both are wrong and evil.

Ohh? Then why in this 2016 report on a rare interview that Pope Benedict gave, was he lamenting "a loss of missionary zeal in the Church" after VII, specifically addressing the necessity of Baptism for entrance into the Church and for one's salvation? Yes, even the most hardcore "Feeneyite" on Facebook was floored by these remarks, and enthusiastically so. 

Pope Emeritus Benedict breaks silence: speaks of ‘deep crisis’ facing Church post-Vatican II
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-emeritus-benedict-says-church-is-now-facing-a-two-sided-deep-crisis

And remember Pope Benedict's Apostolic Letter this past April (on the sex abuse crisis) where he wrote: “What must be done? Perhaps we should create another Church for things to work out? Well, that experiment has already been undertaken and has already failed.” 

Veri Catholici had tweeted on it: “Pope Benedict’s new Apostolic Letter is the Magisterial preparation for the renunciation of Vatican II for all who have eyes to see and ears to hear.”

Also dogma, therefore also necessary for salvation, is submission to the Roman Pontiff. Time to back the true Pope, Pax Vobis. 
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Pax Vobis on September 29, 2019, 01:09:31 PM
Benedict has contradicted himself many times.  Sometimes he sounds Tradition; sometimes modernist.  He’s never been consistent on any topic.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: King Wenceslas on January 20, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
More voices are rising:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2020/01/de-mattei-real-mess-is-cohabitation-of.html?m=1 (https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2020/01/de-mattei-real-mess-is-cohabitation-of.html?m=1)

From this situation, there emerges, however, a much greater mess, which is that of the unnatural cohabitation of two Popes in the Vatican, above all when one of them, Benedict XVI, after renouncing the papacy, maintains the name, continues to wear white, imparts his Apostolic Blessing that only the Pope should do, and once again breaks his silence which he had vowed to keep by resigning.  In short, he considers himself Pope, even if “emeritus”.

This situation is the consequence of a grave theological error by Cardinal Ratzinger. By keeping the title Pope emeritus, as happens with bishops, he appears to believe that the rise to the Papacy imprints an indelible mark similar to that of the priesthood. In reality, the sacramental grades of the priesthood are three only: the diaconate, the priesthood and the episcopacy.  The Papacy belongs to another hierarchy in the Church, the jurisdictional one, or the governmental one, wherein it is the apex. When a Pope is elected, he receives the office of supreme jurisdiction, not a sacrament with an indelible mark.

The priesthood can’t even be lost by death, because it subsists “in aternum” . The papacy, on the other hand, can be lost, not only by death, but also in the case of voluntary renunciation or of manifest, notorious heresy. If he renounces being pontiff, the Pope ceases to be such: he has no right to wear white nor impart the Apostolic Blessing. He, from a canonical point of view, is no longer even a cardinal, but goes back to being a simple bishop.  Unless his renunciation is invalid: but this, in the case of Benedict XVI, should be proven. Effectively, the title of Pope today is being given to both Francis and Benedict, but one is certainly abusive, as only one [man] can be Pope in the Church.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Yeti on January 20, 2020, 05:18:08 PM
 You'd think that, if someone had threatened to poison Benedict, he would just call the police, no?  :sleep:
.
Same goes for the idea that Benedict is some sort of prisoner. When people who are held captive go out in public, they don't start talking about modernist heresy. They say stuff like, "Help! Help! Call the police!!!" :laugh1:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on January 20, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 20, 2020, 05:18:08 PM
You'd think that, if someone had threatened to poison Benedict, he would just call the police, no?  :sleep:
.
Same goes for the idea that Benedict is some sort of prisoner. When people who are held captive go out in public, they don't start talking about modernist heresy. They say stuff like, "Help! Help! Call the police!!!" :laugh1:
Seriously.  Boy have they got those Resignationists fooled.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Immaculatam Hostiam on January 20, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Is there a bigger false paradigm than "Benedict XVI vs Francis", other than maybe the American news media and two party system?
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Mr G on January 21, 2020, 12:20:28 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on January 20, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Seriously.  Boy have they got those Resignationists fooled.
Actually the term "Resignationists" should be applied for those who believe the resignation was valid. Those who believe the resignation was not valid would be "Non-Resignationists".
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: claudel on January 21, 2020, 01:51:21 PM
Quote from: Immaculatam Hostiam on January 20, 2020, 06:13:16 PM

Is there a bigger false paradigm than "Benedict XVI vs Francis", other than maybe the American news media and two party system?

An apt parallel.

The fact that returning Joe Ratz to the papal throne has even a slight appeal is a telling indicator of the depths to which the conciliar mob has sunk under Jorge.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: Mr G on January 21, 2020, 12:20:28 PM
Actually the term "Resignationists" should be applied for those who believe the resignation was valid. Those who believe the resignation was not valid would be "Non-Resignationists".
That might be more logical, but I'm fairly certain that the term used for those who think he didn't really resign is "Resignationists". I also could have used the term "Bennyvacantists".  Regardless, concerning oneself with the most accurate term misses the more important point:  that this particular group of people who think Benny is (still) pope has been completely and utterly fooled.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 21, 2020, 05:46:35 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
That might be more logical, but I'm fairly certain that the term used for those who think he didn't really resign is "Resignationists". I also could have used the term "Bennyvacantists".  Regardless, concerning oneself with the most accurate term misses the more important point:  that this particular group of people who think Benny is (still) pope has been completely and utterly fooled.
Actually Mr. G was correct if only you could persuade yourself TO BELIEVE YOUR OWN WORDS which are "that might be more logical" you would be able to help yourself out.   BENNYresignationist means that you believe that Pope Benedict did in fact fully, validly and properly resign.
Hope that Mr. G and I could help you to figure this out.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 05:52:43 PM
Quote from: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 21, 2020, 05:46:35 PM
Actually Mr. G was correct if only you could persuade yourself TO BELIEVE YOUR OWN WORDS which are "that might be more logical" you would be able to help yourself out.   BENNYresignationist means that you believe that Pope Benedict did in fact fully, validly and properly resign.
Hope that Mr. G and I could help you to figure this out.
My point still stands: the term is inconsequential.  The real issue is that that group of people were completely fooled.  I'm willing to bet that you are among the fooled.  ;)

Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Praeter on January 21, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
Quote from: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 21, 2020, 05:46:35 PM
Actually Mr. G was correct if only you could persuade yourself TO BELIEVE YOUR OWN WORDS which are "that might be more logical" you would be able to help yourself out.   BENNYresignationist means that you believe that Pope Benedict did in fact fully, validly and properly resign.
Hope that Mr. G and I could help you to figure this out.

If she used logic to determine what Benevacantist and Bennyresignationist means she would only be right 50% of the time, since the Benevecantists to believe Benedict occupies the chair.  A more logical name for their absurd theory would be Francisvacantism.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 06:11:18 PM
Quote from: Praeter on January 21, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
If she used logic to determine what Benevacantist and Bennyresignationist means she would only be right 50% of the time, since the Benevecantists to believe Benedict occupies the chair.  A more logical name for their absurd theory would be Francisvacantism.
Heh...to be fair, that is probably the more accurate term....or maybe Bergogliovacantism.  
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 21, 2020, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 05:52:43 PM
I'm willing to bet that you are among the fooled.  ;)
ARMCHAIR says you just lost a bet.

 
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Mr G on January 22, 2020, 01:00:28 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on January 21, 2020, 06:11:18 PM
Heh...to be fair, that is probably the more accurate term....or maybe Bergogliovacantism.  
No, even that term would not be technically accurate as that would be assuming Borgolio occupied the Chair at one point and has since vacated it. 
"Bergolio sedeusurpist" if you believe Benedict is the Pope.
"Benny Vacantist" is actually for those that believe Francis is Pope. 
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 01:17:00 PM
I like beneplenism.

Or how about ...

beneplenebergogliovacantism ?
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 01:21:29 PM
beneplenism (See is filled with Benedict), or a longer form benesedeplensim.

AND the see if vacant of Bergoglio

sedebeneplenebergogliovacantism  (see is filled with Benedict and empty of Bergoglio)
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Mr G on January 22, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 01:21:29 PM
beneplenism (See is filled with Benedict), or a longer form benesedeplensim.

AND the see if vacant of Bergoglio

sedebeneplenebergogliovacantism  (see is filled with Benedict and empty of Bergoglio)
Yes, sedebeneplenebergogliovacantismthis seems to be most accurate!
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
Quote from: Mr G on January 22, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Yes, sedebeneplenebergogliovacantism this seems to be most accurate!

Now we just need to say this quickly ten times.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ByzCat3000 on January 22, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
LOL this thread
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on January 22, 2020, 03:47:06 PM
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on January 22, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
LOL this thread
I know, right?  :laugh1:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Yeti on January 22, 2020, 05:39:59 PM
Yes, the terms "bennyvacantist" and "resignationist" are really not correct English form, and yes it bothers me too, but I think we're stuck with them.
.
I guess we could say "Bennyoccupantism", but other people on this forum have already provided shorter and more convenient terms than me. :laugh2:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 05:44:41 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 22, 2020, 05:39:59 PM
Yes, the terms "bennyvacantist" and "resignationist" are really not correct English form, and yes it bothers me too, but I think we're stuck with them.
.
I guess we could say "Bennyoccupantism", but other people on this forum have already provided shorter and more convenient terms than me. :laugh2:

I just think that people wanted to come up with a shorthand, even if a bit inaccurate, for this:

sedebeneplenebergogliovacantism

I think that "nonresignationists" would work also, though, since everything hinges on whether Benedict actually resigned ... but I think people want to cast this as a variant of sedevacantism vs. sedepleism, so they felt the need to get either "sede" or "vacantist" in there somehow.

I think that another term that might work would be "sedimpeditists".  Bergoglio was impeded from occupying the See by virtue of the fact that Benedict was still in it.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 23, 2020, 08:15:59 AM
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 22, 2020, 01:21:29 PM



sedebeneplenebergogliovacantism  (see is filled with Benedict and empty of Bergoglio)
This is priceless!
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Clemens Maria on January 23, 2020, 08:51:02 AM
How about Frank and Benny or Frankenbenny?
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 23, 2020, 08:54:33 AM
Quote from: Clemens Maria on January 23, 2020, 08:51:02 AM
How about Frank and Benny or Frankenbenny?
LOVE IT! :laugh1:
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on January 23, 2020, 10:02:01 AM
https://gloria.tv/post/cTXSE92jVTPW4vPBdY8xNKv32 (https://gloria.tv/post/cTXSE92jVTPW4vPBdY8xNKv32)

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS FROM GLORIA TV which I just got from ecclesiamilitans.com
Be sure to hit the button for English if you need to.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 12:52:31 PM
But the hireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and flieth: and the wolf catcheth, and scattereth the sheep ~ John 10:12
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Matthew on February 01, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
sede-bene-plene-bergoglio-vacantism

is about the dumbest "solution" to the Crisis that I've heard -- it's right above the Siri Thesis.

Saying Benedict is the true pope solves NOTHING. What about all the other horrible post-V2 popes? What about after Benedict dies? (Let's just say that even most eighty-somethings will live to see it...)

And Benedict is hardly a good pope himself! He was a radical liberal during Vatican II. Now he's a "conservative". Talk about an example of the ever-shifting Overton window!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)

Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Matto on February 01, 2020, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: Matthew on February 01, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
is about the dumbest "solution" to the Crisis that I've heard -- it's right above the Siri Thesis.

I disagree with your assessment of the Siri thesis being so dumb. I think it is less dumb than straight sedevacantism and much less dumb than sedeprivationism. So different traditional Catholics have different opinions about such things. Where would you rate the theory that Paul VI was really good but all the bad things he did were really done by his body double? Or the idea that all the popes were good but they were held prisoner in the Vatican and the Freemasons and Jєωs wrote all of the heretical letters and made all of their evil decisions while the popes were innocent?
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on February 01, 2020, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: Matto on February 01, 2020, 01:54:43 PM
I disagree with your assessment of the Siri thesis being so dumb. I think it is less dumb than straight sedevacantism and much less dumb than sedeprivationism. So different traditional Catholics have different opinions about such things. Where would you rate the theory that Paul VI was really good but all the bad things he did were really done by his body double? Or the idea that all the popes were good but they were held prisoner in the Vatican and the Freemasons and Jєωs wrote all of the heretical letters and made all of their evil decisions while the popes were innocent?
Matto,
The only thing that the Siri thesis does is cut the length of the time of sedevacante. 
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: SoldierOfChrist on February 01, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: Matthew on February 01, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
sede-bene-plene-bergoglio-vacantism

is about the dumbest "solution" to the Crisis that I've heard -- it's right above the Siri Thesis.

Saying Benedict is the true pope solves NOTHING. What about all the other horrible post-V2 popes? What about after Benedict dies? (Let's just say that even most eighty-somethings will live to see it...)

And Benedict is hardly a good pope himself! He was a radical liberal during Vatican II. Now he's a "conservative". Talk about an example of the ever-shifting Overton window!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)
But it doesn’t matter whether it is or isn’t a good solution.  For my part, I’m just looking to determine whether it’s true or not.  Maybe it’s a really bad solution because we’re still stuck with a material heretic as Pope.  But going along a similar line to +ABL’s choice of the 1962 missal as the last acceptable, not necessarily the best, it seems that Pope Benedict was the last Pope who could possibly have had the intention of remaining subordinate to the Catholic Faith, while unintentionally holding and teaching heresies.  Long stretch of the imagination, I know.  But we can give him the benefit of the doubt at least.  He never said he wanted to say things that might be heretical.  He used his German, overly intellectual imagination to convince himself that you can mix old theology with new theology and still remain true to the Faith.  So the arguments against Francis are not arguments FOR Benedict.  Francis indicated that he does not care what the Catholic Church’s infallible teachings are.  He showed that he holds his beliefs independently from the Church’s teachings.  That proves his intentions are heretical.  There’s no way argue he didn’t intend heresy.  If I said “I would like to do something that might be adulterous.  I don’t know, but here goes.”, by my own words, I would have just shown intent to commit adultery.  Total lack of subordination of myself to the laws of marriage.  Same with Francis.  Now I don’t believe that God would allow a true Pope to betray Him on that level.  I’ve always been taught that the Pope cannot teach heresy.  If we’ve got one who is pertinaciously teaching heresy after several corrections, then how could this be real.  Then I look at Ann Barnhardt’s explanation.  I know.  She’s the laughing stock.  Poor woman has endured so much abuse from fellow Catholics just for articulating what seems to me to be common sense.  I’m not saying she’s right.  I’m just saying it’s a very compelling argument.  Yes, we don’t have the authority to depose a pope, but if it’s obvious that the man is a heretic, then how can he BE a Pope?  And I believe sedevacantism has been shown to be heretical, so then what is the simplest explanation for how we got to this point?  Someone else must be the True Pope.  I’m pretty sure it’s not Pope Michael.  That leaves us with Benedict.  And look at all of the vast number of canonical irregularities associated with his resignation.  Look at the irregularities of his relationship to Francis after the resignation.  Look at the explanation given by Archbishop Gaenschwein regarding the new expanded office of the Papacy.  It begins to make more sense.  Certainly not a solution to our problems, but might be the reality of what we’re living through.  And yes, what happens when he dies?  Good question.  God help us.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Matto on February 01, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on February 01, 2020, 02:19:26 PM
Matto,
The only thing that the Siri thesis does is cut the length of the time of sedevacante.

Unless one believes that he made secret cardinals and there is a secret hierarchy somewhere with a true Pope from the Siri line. That belief is what I think is better than straight sedevacantism, because to me a secret pope and a secret Church in the catacombs seems better than no Pope at all. I know this seems absurd, but so is life in the times of the antichrist. And don't think that I despise sedevacantism, I just have a different hierarchy of theories.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 03:43:10 PM
Quote
Unless one believes that he made secret cardinals and there is a secret hierarchy somewhere with a true Pope from the Siri line. That belief is what I think is better than straight sedevacantism, because to me a secret pope and a secret Church in the catacombs seems better than no Pope at all. I know this seems absurd, but so is life in the times of the antichrist. And don't think that I despise sedevacantism, I just have a different hierarchy of theories.


What true shepherd leaves his flock to be scattered and preyed upon by wolves, just to save himself (for fear of the Jєωs)?

John 10:12
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: SoldierOfChrist on February 01, 2020, 03:46:22 PM
Quote from: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 03:43:10 PM


What true shepherd leaves his flock to be scattered and preyed upon by wolves, just to save himself (for fear of the Jєωs)?

John 10:12
St. Peter did.  He fled from the Crucifixion.  Of the apostles, only St. John stayed.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote
St. Peter did. He fled from the Crucifixion. Of the apostles, only St. John stayed.

Peter wasn't the pope at that time, and he fled Jesus' imprisonment and scourging, not His crucifixion. The Divine Sacrifice had not yet taken place, hence, Peter wasn't the pope until Pentecost.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: SoldierOfChrist on February 01, 2020, 04:14:58 PM
Quote from: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Peter wasn't the pope at that time, and he fled Jesus' imprisonment and scourging, not His crucifixion. The Divine Sacrifice had not yet taken place, hence, Peter wasn't the pope until Pentecost.
Good point
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on February 01, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Peter wasn't the pope at that time, and he fled Jesus' imprisonment and scourging, not His crucifixion. The Divine Sacrifice had not yet taken place, hence, Peter wasn't the pope until Pentecost.
Correct, although it was not at Pentecost.  I had always thought so too, but someone else pointed it out to me that Peter became Pope before Pentecost when Christ told Peter to "feed His sheep" (John 21:15-17).  See Haydock's commentary:

Ver. 15. Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? That is, more than any one of these love me. Christ puts this question thrice to S. Peter, that this triple protestation of love, says S. Aug. might correspond to his triple denial. S. Peter did not answer that he loved him more than the rest did, which he could not know, but modestly said: yea, Lord, thou knowest I love thee: and the third time, thou knowest all things, and the hearts of all men, thou knowest how much I love thee. At each protestation, Jesus answered, feed my lambs; and the third time, feed my sheep. To feed, in the style of the Scriptures, is to guide, rule, and govern. S. Ambrose and some others take notice, as if by the lambs, might be understood the people, and by the sheep, those placed over them, as bishops, priests, &c. but others make no such difference in this place, betwixt lambs and sheep, only as comprehending all the members of Christ's Church, of what condition soever, even the rest of the apostles. For here it was that Christ gave to S. Peter that power which he had promised him, (Matt. xvi. 18.) that is, He now made S. Peter head[1] of his whole Church, as he had insinuated at the first meeting, when S. Andrew brought him to our Saviour, when he changed his name from Simon to Peter: again, when he chose him, and made him the first of his twelve apostles; but particularly, when he said, thou art Peter, (a rock) and upon this rock will I build my Church, &c. Upon this account the Catholic Church, from the very first ages, hath always reverenced, and acknowledged the supreme power of the successors of S. Peter, in spirituals, over all Christian Churches. This appears also by the writings of Tertullian, of S. Irenæus, of S. Cyprian, of the greatest doctors and bishops, both of the west and east, of S. Jerom, S. Augustin, of S. Chrysostom, in several places, of the first general Councils, particularly of the great Council of Chalcedon, &c. Wi. — Simon (son) of John. The father's name is here added, to discriminate him from Simon Thaddeus, that every one might know that the chief care of the universal Church was not given to any other apostle but Peter. This Simon of John is the same as Simon Bar-jona. See Matt. xvi. 17. Menochius. — S. Peter had three times renounced his master; and Jesus, to give him an opportunity of repairing his fault by a triple confession, three several times demanded of him, if he loved him more than these? That, as S. Augustin remarks, he who had thrice denied through fear might thrice confess through love. Calmet.


Ver. 16-17. The lambs and the sheep of our Saviour here mean the faithful, who compose his Church, without any distinction of Jєω or Gentile. S. Peter, by these words, is appointed to take charge of the whole flock, as being the chief and prince of the apostles. He is, in some manner, the pastor, not of the sheep only, but of the pastors themselves. They have each their own flock to look after; but to him is committed the care of all; he alone is the pastor of all. Calmet. — Feed my sheep. Our Lord had promised the spiritual supremacy to S. Peter; (S. Matt. xvi. 19.) and here he fulfils that promise, by charging him with the superintendency of all his sheep, without exception; and consequently of his whole flock, that is, of his whole Church. Ch.

Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Immaculatam Hostiam on February 01, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
Quote
Correct, although it was not at Pentecost. I had always thought so too, but someone else pointed it out to me that Peter became Pope before Pentecost when Christ told Peter to "feed His sheep" (John 21:15-17). See Haydock's commentary: [...]


I thank you for this correction.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Mr G on February 02, 2020, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: Matthew on February 01, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
sede-bene-plene-bergoglio-vacantism

is about the dumbest "solution" to the Crisis that I've heard -- it's right above the Siri Thesis.

Saying Benedict is the true pope solves NOTHING. What about all the other horrible post-V2 popes? What about after Benedict dies? (Let's just say that even most eighty-somethings will live to see it...)

And Benedict is hardly a good pope himself! He was a radical liberal during Vatican II. Now he's a "conservative". Talk about an example of the ever-shifting Overton window!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)
True it is not a solution to the Crisis, but depending on who you read, this is issue was never about solving the Crisis. The issue is NOT who is better, Benedict or Francis, or who is the worst heretic, who is more dangerous, or similar comparisons. The true issue is; was Pope Benedict's resignation valid according to canon law or is it invalid due to substantial error.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Ladislaus on February 02, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: Matthew on February 01, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
sede-bene-plene-bergoglio-vacantism

is about the dumbest "solution" to the Crisis that I've heard -- it's right above the Siri Thesis.

Saying Benedict is the true pope solves NOTHING. What about all the other horrible post-V2 popes? What about after Benedict dies? (Let's just say that even most eighty-somethings will live to see it...)

And Benedict is hardly a good pope himself! He was a radical liberal during Vatican II. Now he's a "conservative". Talk about an example of the ever-shifting Overton window!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)

Indeed.  Francis is of course a more flamboyant and open Modernist than Benedict was, but they're substantially the same.

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/10/kasper-sees-no-substantial-difference-between-benedict-and-francis/ (https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/10/kasper-sees-no-substantial-difference-between-benedict-and-francis/)

Quote
ROME - As one of the major protagonists of the Francis papacy - and arguably of the Catholic Church since Vatican II - German Cardinal Walter Kasper argues, “there is no real substantial difference between Pope Benedict and Pope Francis.”

“They are different personalities of course, different backgrounds,” said Kasper. “One is European, the other comes from Latin America. [But] if you read exactly what they write, it’s the same line and substance.”

Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: ARMCHAIR Theologian on February 02, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6Rlchu1lI&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: Yeti on February 02, 2020, 04:08:17 PM
I haven't followed Vigano's saga that closely, but I don't understand why trads have latched on to him the way they have. He seems only concerned with sex scandals. I haven't heard him condemn Vatican 2, the Novus Ordo Mass, or any other doctrinal errors of the new church.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: 2Vermont on February 02, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
Quote from: Yeti on February 02, 2020, 04:08:17 PM
I haven't followed Vigano's saga that closely, but I don't understand why trads have latched on to him the way they have. He seems only concerned with sex scandals. I haven't heard him condemn Vatican 2, the Novus Ordo Mass, or any other doctrinal errors of the new church.
He's just the latest Burke or Schneider.   Still New Order.
Title: Re: Benedict XVI is still the Pope
Post by: SoldierOfChrist on February 02, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on February 02, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
He's just the latest Burke or Schneider.   Still New Order.
I’m not so sure about that.  He seems to have taken a harder stance than either of them on Vatican II.
https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-62-2019-vigano-on-the-danger-of-syncretism/ (https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-62-2019-vigano-on-the-danger-of-syncretism/)
“ Pius XI had alerted and warned us. But the teachings that preceded Vatican II have been thrown to the winds, as intolerant and obsolete. The comparison between the pre-conciliar Magisterium and the new teachings of Nostra aetate and Dignitatis humanae — to mention only those — manifest a terrible discontinuity, which must be acknowledged and which must be amended as soon as possible. Adjuvante Deo (“with God’s help”).”