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Author Topic: Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday  (Read 3811 times)

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Offline informer1989

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Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
« on: March 10, 2012, 10:39:36 AM »
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  • Offline s2srea

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 10:56:34 AM »
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  • Please go away. Thank you.


    Offline Matthew

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 11:14:05 AM »
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  • This latest incarnation of Tomas has been banned.

    As an aside, ashes on the head is traditionally only done for CLERICS who have received tonsure.

    Laymen traditionally receive ashes on the forehead. Why does the Novus Ordo Church have to change everything in our religion? Why don't they just leave the Catholic Church and be done with it?
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    Offline Elizabeth

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 11:22:41 AM »
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  •  :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

    I am glad this was brought to my attention.  I would not have believed this if I had not seen the photos.  It would never have occurred to me.

    It is breathtaking to change ashes on our forehead to something which would not be visible.  Is there some special "explanation" for this?  

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 12:04:44 PM »
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  • On Ash Wednesday, the Novus Ordo Church in my area still gives ashes
    on the forehead in the sign of the cross.
    Not aware of these changes until I read this.


    Offline MeganProFide

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 04:58:34 PM »
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  • Actually, as you can see in this 1881 Polish painting, sprinkling ashes on the top of the head is a longstanding practice and applies to the laity (even women with veils, as shown here) just as to the clergy.  My understanding is that the top-of-the-head practice is principally European and a much older method, while the cross-on-forehead method is more recent and less common in the Old World.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 06:56:54 PM »
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  • Thank you so much, Megan!

     :pray:  May God bless you.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 07:06:58 PM »
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  • You all are missing the point. Why do penance at all in the N.O.? Insurance policy? Help build discipline for secular reasons? Symbolic? JPII has already legitimized believing in universal salvation. Do most in the NO really believe that penance, sacrifice, mortification REALLY has any supernatural merit? If so, would they say it? Does this not offend our Protestant brethren and sistren?

    I have no evidence of this, but would not be surprised if this is yet another "ancient practice" the powers that be have reverted to, gutting it of it's original meaning and using it for an alterior motive. Similar to communion under both kinds. Would not be surprised if some want to use it as a way for Catholics who are embarrassed they are Catholic to both receive ashes and not be noticed as Catholic after they leave church.


    Offline tradne13838

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 10:19:59 PM »
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  • So Pedro is at it again.....
    Proud to be "Lefebvrian."

    Third Order SSPX (Postulant)

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 08:18:06 AM »
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  • i enjoy the 1881 painting of a Polish priest seeming to administer ashes by sprinkling them on the head.  

    However, to piggyback hundreds of years or even if we can find some obscure, never noticed before or since and not really noticed even back then, writing of a follower of the Apostles advocating the sprinkling of ashes on the head instead of the more reverent and sacramental action of making the sign of the cross with the ashes...  that would really miss the point.

    The point would be that Benedict XVI and the NO's are really just trying to downgrade Ash Wednesday and even lessen the penitential aspects of Lent.  By just reducing the ashes from a cross to sprinkling the ashes on your head is a form of closing the door a few inches so we can become more separated or at least less able to visually see our Catholicism.  It's really a form of separating us from our Catholic heritage and our Catholic faith not by preaching against it but slowly and surely changing it from within.

    It's all part of the deceit of VCII and the "concilliarists" that following in it's wake.


    Offline VinnyF

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 12:02:41 PM »
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  • This is more a case of, once again, the modern church being embarrassed by yet another practice that is distinctive to Catholics, although I know that some Episcopals and Anglicans also do it.

    When I show up at work with ashes on my forehead, it distinctly marks me, predominantly as a Catholic for my colleagues to see.  I am embarrassed to say that it usually makes me feel courageous, if you can understand that.

    Of course, ashes on the top of the head is much more comfortable as it leaves no trace to be embarrassed by and misses the opportunity to declare a small mark of our faith.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 12:19:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: VinnyF


    When I show up at work with ashes on my forehead, it distinctly marks me, predominantly as a Catholic for my colleagues to see.  I am embarrassed to say that it usually makes me feel courageous, if you can understand that.

    /quote]  
    I understand, although maybe it's a mix of humility and courage-maybe the word is heartened?

     There is this sense of longing and pining away.  On Ash Wednesday when we catch a glimpse of others with the holy ashes on their forehead, if we have not yet had ours it strikes through the heart.

    I know that masonic old Pat Robertson makes a big deal about insulting and demeaning our Catholic Ash Wednesday tradition before his huge audience.



    Offline MeganProFide

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 07:19:39 PM »
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  • The problem is when people who are very provincial just assume that the way things have been in their locality in living memory is the way things have always been, everywhere.  For instance, here's an old picture showing ashes sprinkled on top of the head in Europe:



    And here's a picture of John Paul II receiving it the same way:



    That's from a blog called RomanSacristan, where he observes:  "I prefer the way they do it in Italy. On Ash Wednesday when I received ashes at Saint Peter's Basilica, they just sprinkle the ashes on top of your head in the form of a cross. ... [W]here did the American forehead custom come from?"

    And here are Christians in the Old City of Jerusalem also receiving ashes this way:



    And here's a really old picture (c. 1370) called "The Putting On of Ashes":



    Plus, here's a book from 1907 referring to "the Roman Catholic custom of sprinkling ashes on the head" (as current at that time), and here's a book from 1900 confirming that it was also the "ancient Roman Catholic custom."

    Believe me, I couldn't possibly have less interest in defending whatever they do in Rome, but it's disappointing when people dismiss a longstanding, legitimate, and noble Catholic practice just because it wasn't done in their tiny neck of the woods 50 years ago, and so anything different must be an outlandish novelty presumably caused by embarrassment at being Catholic or a desire to destroy tradition.  I know it is nearly impossible to believe, but midcentury American Catholicism is not, in fact, the be-all and end-all of Catholicism.  In many countries, if they started putting ashes on the forehead, that would be destroying a tradition.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 06:33:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: MeganProFide
    and here's a book from 1900 confirming that it was also the "ancient Roman Catholic custom."


    I clicked on this particular link and it mentions that the sprinkling of ashes on the head was intended for the condemned and that those who were in good standing or categorized as merely lent penitents were given the sign of the cross in ashes.  

    It's not provincialism that is causing doubt among us for a change in practice without any announcement but this change is brought to us by the same crowd that gave of CITH - while standing, of course, and also the changes to the consecration of the bread and wine (which wasn't mentioned when ICEL came out with the still lacking "corrected" translations) and all the rest of the deceitful VII and it's "spirit".

    Besides, didn't Jesus Christ, our Blessed Savior say He would be with us until the end of days and that we would be guided by the Holy Ghost?  And weren't we as Catholics blessed with the great saints to guide us and to be sources of inspiration?  Why the fetishness of looking long and hard for ancient customs that may appear to make the case for the novus ordites and to ignore a dozen centuries of piety and truth when the "archeologism" that the NO's are pushing is really just to downgrade religious customs?  

    Offline VinnyF

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    Benedict XVI destroys ash wednesday
    « Reply #14 on: March 12, 2012, 08:53:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: MeganProFide
    The problem is when people who are very provincial just assume that the way things have been in their locality in living memory is the way things have always been, everywhere.  For instance, here's an old picture showing ashes sprinkled on top of the head in Europe:



    And here's a picture of John Paul II receiving it the same way:



    That's from a blog called RomanSacristan, where he observes:  "I prefer the way they do it in Italy. On Ash Wednesday when I received ashes at Saint Peter's Basilica, they just sprinkle the ashes on top of your head in the form of a cross. ... [W]here did the American forehead custom come from?"

    And here are Christians in the Old City of Jerusalem also receiving ashes this way:



    And here's a really old picture (c. 1370) called "The Putting On of Ashes":



    Plus, here's a book from 1907 referring to "the Roman Catholic custom of sprinkling ashes on the head" (as current at that time), and here's a book from 1900 confirming that it was also the "ancient Roman Catholic custom."

    Believe me, I couldn't possibly have less interest in defending whatever they do in Rome, but it's disappointing when people dismiss a longstanding, legitimate, and noble Catholic practice just because it wasn't done in their tiny neck of the woods 50 years ago, and so anything different must be an outlandish novelty presumably caused by embarrassment at being Catholic or a desire to destroy tradition.  I know it is nearly impossible to believe, but midcentury American Catholicism is not, in fact, the be-all and end-all of Catholicism.  In many countries, if they started putting ashes on the forehead, that would be destroying a tradition.


    This puts me in mind of how the modern church seeks to justify its modern novelties, like Communion in the hand, by saying they are just doing the way the early Christians did it.