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Author Topic: Benedict XVI dead at 95  (Read 20989 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2022, 12:49:00 PM »
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  • It's an incredible cope when Bennycantists contend Ratzinger didn't have a choice to resign or was somehow shielded from what was going on right under his nose or got bad advice when it came to the horrendous appointments he made or the crap E Michael Jones peddles, explaining Benny's German guilt from the h0Ɩ0h0αx colored his position on the joos.
    You would need to have a Mr. Magoo level of blindness to stumble through life like that
    .

    It's a simple tactic to make up whatever facts your argument needs to be true. The Bennyvacantists went through the following thought process:

    1. Francis must be not pope, for obvious reasons.
    2. But said obvious reasons are not reasons we can voice, for then we would be sedevacantists. We must find other reasons to allege instead.
    3. What about saying that Benedict was forced to resign? Yes, that will allow us to be sedevacantists without being sedevacantists.
    4. Therefore Benedict was forced to resign.
    5. Make up whatever "facts" you need in order to support step 4.
    6. Objective achieved: Francis is not pope and we are not sedevacantists. ::)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #76 on: December 31, 2022, 12:50:55 PM »
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  • But Cassini, we don't know these things. Catholic teaching is clear that no one is predestined to hell. Fr. Gregory Hesse (God rest his soul) has a great talk on this subject that I have saved personally in my files. and how do you know Benedict sent souls to hell? If he did, okay. If he didn't, okay. Let us not judge Benedict's soul because do not  judge or you too will be judged saith the lord. (Matthew 7:1). We do not know about his last hours. We need to stop semi-calvinists here and act like we know more than God about hell. Benedict's soul is with Christ. Benedict's soul is judged by Christ. Why can't us humans who are also sinners wish him the best? Mind you, I am also at the same time not saying Benedict was not a modernist.

    I'm on the fence about this.  Yes, Ratzinger had nearly 10 years in "retirement" to get right with God, though prayer and meditation, etc. ... to realize the errors of his ways, if he would only correspond with God's graces.  But my feeling is that these V2 papal claimants were / are deliberate agents of destruction, and not just some well-meanig people who were confused by Modernism and were simply misguided about what was for the good of souls and the good of the Church.

    Yes, there's a possibility God intervened with His grace and saved his soul.  BUT ... we see no public signs of it, and the Church has tended to presume public sinners lost unless they show some public sign of repentance before they die, refusing them burial.  It's only a presumption, of course.  Even ѕυιcιdєs could theoretically have repented (and made perfect acts of contrition) before they died.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #77 on: December 31, 2022, 12:54:53 PM »
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  • It wouldn't be "nice" to speak ill of dead false shepherds who spent a lifetime dedicated to the destruction of as many souls as possible. No, let us pray for Luther's soul too while we're at it.

    Well, I often look back and feel sorry for that poor sap Luther also, shuddering to think of what his last judgment would have been.

    In any case, that does not require us to speak well of them, either Luther or Ratzinger.  Our "niceness" makes no difference to THEM right now, and if Ratzinger could come back to life now that he has been judged, what he wouldn't give to denounce his own "papacy" and to undo the damage.  If, on the other hand, he's in Purgatory, he's rejoicing every time someone does or says something to expose his errors and to at least partly undo the damage he did, as it would lessen his time in Purgatory.  If he's in Purgatory suffering for the harm he did, the "nice" words probably cause him pain.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #78 on: December 31, 2022, 12:58:42 PM »
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  • For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #79 on: December 31, 2022, 01:00:27 PM »
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  • My what a dilemma it is to be a Catholic. Do we pray God will forgive a Pope who contributed to countless other souls who lost their faith and died in that state. The one thing we cannot do, and that is judge him according to Catholic teaching, which as I understand it means say someone is gone to hell. That said, our faith also tells us heretics and those who contributed to the loss of souls go to Hell. Now the idea that he considered himself a pope who was a modernist as we understand it, and that in his last hours he repented a lifetime of ideas that were anti-Catholic, is highly unlikely. If you believe that why didn't he tell the flock to discard much of his teaching? Why did he leave others to keep believing his heresies and let them to hell. He was a pope which is a position that has a far greater responsibility than the sinners in the pews. Oh yes, didn't someone tell us that hell is paved with the souls of the clergy.
    I think it best to leave him in God's hands now and try to cope with his legacy in Pope Frances, another driving souls into Hell.

    I don't think it's a dilemma.  We can do both, pray for his soul AND "judge him acording to Catholic teaching," i.e. denounce his heresies.  As for whether he could have repented, well of course it's possible.  Now, the one possibility with him is that he did have nearly 10 years in retirement / seclusion to reflect on his life.  If he did repent, would his handlers (as he was hardly independently mobile toward the end) allow him to come out with a statement or speech to denouce his errors?

    We do have to be careful when praying for him publicly (by which I mean in public vs. by offering the Mass or public prayer of the Church for him, which is not permitted) that we do not give the false impression that there's good hope for his salvation.  We pray for him publicly while expressing sorrow that he's likely not bee saved.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #80 on: December 31, 2022, 01:03:34 PM »
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  • .

    It's a simple tactic to make up whatever facts your argument needs to be true. The Bennyvacantists went through the following thought process:

    1. Francis must be not pope, for obvious reasons.
    2. But said obvious reasons are not reasons we can voice, for then we would be sedevacantists. We must find other reasons to allege instead.
    3. What about saying that Benedict was forced to resign? Yes, that will allow us to be sedevacantists without being sedevacantists.
    4. Therefore Benedict was forced to resign.
    5. Make up whatever "facts" you need in order to support step 4.
    6. Objective achieved: Francis is not pope and we are not sedevacantists. ::)


    Love it! :laugh1:
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #81 on: December 31, 2022, 01:05:05 PM »
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  • So much for the prediction that two popes die the same night.

    Well, it's some "Old Italian Prophecy" that may (or may not) come true yet.  We'll have to see.  Jorge is talking about resigning as well and has suggested that it's likely that he would resign if his health took a turn ... and he has been rolling around in a wheelchair for some time.

    See, I for one was not expecting this to happen now, as my personal piecing together of the timeline suggests 2029 for the start of ths "great unravelling", and the above prophecy states that there will be a restoration of the Church after the death of the two popes in the same night.  I don't expect the full restoration of the Church until about 2033.

    This is based on the following clues:

    1) Our Lady appeared to Sister Lucia to request the consecration of Russia on June 13, 1929.
    2) Our Lord later appeared to Sister Lucia and complained that the popes were delaying "just like the Kings of France" and would, as a result, similarly follow them in misfortune.
    3) When Our Lord had requested that the Kings of France consecrate the country to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, it was exactly 100 years TO THE DAY of Our Lord's request that the King was deposed.  That would be June 13, 1929 -> June 13, 2029 in our case.
    4) About 3.5 years later, the King of France was executed).  June 13, 2029 + a bit over 3.5 years is early 2033 (200 years after Our Lord's crucifixion)
    5) Pope Leo XIII had the vision that Satan would be given special control for a period of 75 years.  After this, if you look at Pope Leo's LONG prayer to St. Michael, it specifically speaks of the intention by the Church's enemies to "strike the Shepherd" and scatter the sheep.
    6) Roncalli usurped the papacy in October of 1958, since which time Satan has been in control by eclipsing the Church, and 75 years would be 2033.

    So my working theory is that on the night of June 13, 2029, two popes will die the same night.  Perhaps Jorge resigns before then and is still floating around in 2029 as the new "Pope Emeritus".  At that point, a Great Chastisement begins.  Russia invades Western Europe due to some provocation.  At some point, according to Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, Sts. Peter and Paul will appear and desginate the new pope  That would be the "Holy Pope" of prophecy destined to restore the Church.  This Holy Pope would the consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary ... at which point, the chaos of the World War would immediately and miraculously end, largely through the Three Days of Darkness, and everyone will recognize that Our Lady's intercession brought the turnaround and will convert to the True Faith.  Then a period of peace, about a generation, will then be followed by the arrival of Antichrist.  Just my current working theory, but a lot of dots add up to pointing to 2029 as the start, given Our Lady's request in 1929 to consecrate Russia and Our Lord's likening their delay to that of the Kings of France.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #82 on: December 31, 2022, 01:18:36 PM »
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  • .

    Um, it should be self-evident that any such prophecy is a false prophecy. :laugh1:
    Yeah, maybe it had a chance if it said the two "anti-popes" or the two "false popes".


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #83 on: December 31, 2022, 01:39:30 PM »
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  • Yeah, maybe it had a chance if it said the two "anti-popes" or the two "false popes".

    Nah, these kinds of things don't generally have a high degree of theological precision.  St. Malachi's list of "Popes" includes Anti-Popes (even before the current string).  And the prophecy says a White Pope and a Black Pope.  Before the Bergoglio-Ratzinger situation, most guessed that the reference to "Black Pope" was to the Jesuit Superior General, who was often referred to as "The Black Pope".  Others did feel that it was a reference to an Anti-Pope.

    In terms of Black Pope, another possibility was tossed around as referring to an African, and we know that the current Vatican is definitely "woke" enough to elect a Black man after Jorge.  I think I saw some prophecy of a wicked Black (as in African) Pope who murdered a rival to the papacy and became an Antipope.

    Would anyone be particularly surprised if Jorge resigned for health reasons, and then an African were elected the next pope, just so the Vatican can show the world how woke they are?  Of course, they could do worse than Sarah, whom I believe still has the faith, and who would likely cooperate with the graces of the office if elected.  But we also know darn well that they won't pick him, but one of the pagan/animist types.  Ah, that reminds me, jogs my memory, and I can't recall the source of that aforementioned prophecy, but it says that this African Black pope who murders a rival and becomes an Anti-Pope was raised as a pagan/animist and only feigned conversion to Catholicism.

    Also, sometimes it's said there were "Three Popes" during the Great Western Schism.  Obviously, there was only one, but they were speaking loosely ... and there's no reason to expect scholastic precision in these types of things.  In fact, prophecies tend to be somewhat obscure.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #84 on: December 31, 2022, 01:50:08 PM »
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  • Here's from Sarah's Wiki page --
    Quote
    Robert Sarah (French: [ʁɔbɛ:ʁ saʁa]; born 15 June 1945) is a Guinean prelate of the Catholic Church. A cardinal since 20 November 2010, he was prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments from 23 November 2014 to 20 February 2021. Sarah previously served as secretary of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples under Pope John Paul II and president of the Pontifical Council Cor Unum under Pope Benedict XVI.

    Sarah has been a forceful advocate for the defense of traditional Catholic teaching on questions of sɛҳuąƖ morality and the right to life, and in denouncing Islamic radicalism. He has called gender ideology and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) the "two radicalizations" that threaten the family: the former through divorce, same-sex marriage, and abortion; the latter with child marriage, polygamy, and the subjection of women.

    He has been described as largely sympathetic to liturgical practices of the era before the Second Vatican Council, but has also proposed that partisans of different liturgies learn from each other and seek a middle ground. In 2016 Sarah called for priests to face the same direction as the congregation while celebrating Mass (ad orientem), although facing the congregation had become the prevailing practice since the Second Vatican Council. His advice was seen by some as a direct challenge to Pope Francis, a claim that Sarah rejects. An advocate of traditional Catholic marriage doctrine in opposition to same-sex marriage, he has denounced "Western ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and abortion ideologies", suggesting that both are of "demonic origin", and he has compared them to nαzιsm and Islamic terrorism.

    Sarah has been mentioned as papabile, a possible candidate for the papacy, by international media outlets such as Le Monde and by Catholic publications including Crux and the Catholic Herald.

    Sarah was ordained to the priesthood in July of 1969, so perhaps a valid priest?  I know that the New Rite was issued mid-1968, but sometimes it takes a couple years to get the books printed and distributed, and some of the older bishops clung to the old Rites until they were forced to accept the new ones.  Also, the bishop who ordained him was undoubtedly valid (consecrated in 1962).  If there was a delay in getting the New Rite of Ordination translated into vernacular and then distributed, it would have been in Africa.

    Of course, per that previous prophecy I mentioned (I'll have to find it again):
    Quote
    Sarah was born in Ourous, a rural village in then French Guinea, on 15 June 1945, the son of cultivators and converts to Christianity from animism.
    :confused:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #85 on: December 31, 2022, 01:58:29 PM »
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  • But it looks like Bergoglio gave him a bit of a "talking to":
    Quote
    Speaking at a London conference on 5 July 2016, Cardinal Sarah asked all bishops and priests to begin celebrating the Mass ad orientem "wherever possible", "perhaps" by 27 November 2016, the start of Advent. He encouraged all Roman rite Catholics to receive Communion kneeling and said that Pope Francis had asked him to "continue the liturgical work Pope Benedict began". Sarah then met privately with Francis and on 11 July the Holy See Press Office issued a statement that said that Sarah's London remarks had been "incorrectly interpreted, as if they were intended to announce new indications different to those given so far in the liturgical rules and in the words of the Pope regarding celebration facing the people and the ordinary rite of the Mass", that celebrating Mass facing the congregation (versus populum) was "desirable wherever possible" and not to be superseded by ad orientem. It reported that the Pope and the Cardinal were in complete agreement on these points.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #86 on: December 31, 2022, 02:19:43 PM »
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  • Fishing right now, but here’s a start:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS271665718420121003

    That’s just a few months before the resignation.

    Will dig up more later (CI threads on the resignation may also be fertile ground on this topic).

    And more:

    https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2013/02/23/gαy-cabal-forces-benedicts-resignation-calm-collected-reflections-on-the-media-furor/ 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #87 on: December 31, 2022, 02:22:30 PM »
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  • See, I for one was not expecting this to happen now, as my personal piecing together of the timeline suggests 2029 for the start of ths "great unravelling", and the above prophecy states that there will be a restoration of the Church after the death of the two popes in the same night.  I don't expect the full restoration of the Church until about 2033.

    This is based on the following clues:

    1) Our Lady appeared to Sister Lucia to request the consecration of Russia on June 13, 1929.
    2) Our Lord later appeared to Sister Lucia and complained that the popes were delaying "just like the Kings of France" and would, as a result, similarly follow them in misfortune.
    3) When Our Lord had requested that the Kings of France consecrate the country to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, it was exactly 100 years TO THE DAY of Our Lord's request that the King was deposed.  That would be June 13, 1929 -> June 13, 2029 in our case.
    4) About 3.5 years later, the King of France was executed).  June 13, 2029 + a bit over 3.5 years is early 2033 (200 years after Our Lord's crucifixion)
    5) Pope Leo XIII had the vision that Satan would be given special control for a period of 75 years.  After this, if you look at Pope Leo's LONG prayer to St. Michael, it specifically speaks of the intention by the Church's enemies to "strike the Shepherd" and scatter the sheep.
    6) Roncalli usurped the papacy in October of 1958, since which time Satan has been in control by eclipsing the Church, and 75 years would be 2033.

    So my working theory is that on the night of June 13, 2029, two popes will die the same night.  Perhaps Jorge resigns before then and is still floating around in 2029 as the new "Pope Emeritus".  At that point, a Great Chastisement begins.  Russia invades Western Europe due to some provocation.  At some point, according to Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, Sts. Peter and Paul will appear and desginate the new pope  That would be the "Holy Pope" of prophecy destined to restore the Church.  This Holy Pope would the consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary ... at which point, the chaos of the World War would immediately and miraculously end, largely through the Three Days of Darkness, and everyone will recognize that Our Lady's intercession brought the turnaround and will convert to the True Faith.  Then a period of peace, about a generation, will then be followed by the arrival of Antichrist.  Just my current working theory, but a lot of dots add up to pointing to 2029 as the start, given Our Lady's request in 1929 to consecrate Russia and Our Lord's likening their delay to that of the Kings of France.
    Didn't Bishop Williamson publish something similar in one of his Comments a couple years ago when he was talking about the fifth and sixth age of the church?
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #88 on: December 31, 2022, 02:57:42 PM »
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  • I'm on the fence about this.  Yes, Ratzinger had nearly 10 years in "retirement" to get right with God, though prayer and meditation, etc. ... to realize the errors of his ways, if he would only correspond with God's graces.  But my feeling is that these V2 papal claimants were / are deliberate agents of destruction, and not just some well-meanig people who were confused by Modernism and were simply misguided about what was for the good of souls and the good of the Church.

    Yes, there's a possibility God intervened with His grace and saved his soul.  BUT ... we see no public signs of it, and the Church has tended to presume public sinners lost unless they show some public sign of repentance before they die, refusing them burial.  It's only a presumption, of course.  Even ѕυιcιdєs could theoretically have repented (and made perfect acts of contrition) before they died.
    Not only could they, St. John Vianney apparently saw that at least one specific suicidal person did make the act of perfect contrition at the last second and told the wife that she should pray for him

    I know that’s technically off topic but it’s cool

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #89 on: December 31, 2022, 03:21:04 PM »
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  • I think his resignation had to do with not being able to bring the SSPX on board the conciliar church (well, at least not officially). He gave his resignation, what, six weeks or so after the SSPX announcement that they would not reconcile with Rome? I also think that he, at the last minute, intentionally put a wrench in the works by giving a stipulation to an agreement that the SSPX could not meet. It might seem like a minor reason for wanting to resign, but someone may have been blackmailing him. Just a theory.
    Where would this forum be without Meg's comic relief?

    I love you woman.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi