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Author Topic: Benedict XVI dead at 95  (Read 29538 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #400 on: January 10, 2023, 08:03:30 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2023, 07:54:23 AM
You spent nearly the entirety of this thread here arguing that heretics are members of the Church.
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/bergolio-says-there-many-restorers-in-usa-who-do-not-accept-vatican-ii/msg830346/#msg830346
If the heretics were never Catholic, then they are not members. If they were Catholic and fell into the sin of heresy, then they are excluded from her communion (excommunicated). Should they want to repent and amend their lives, they can go to confession to be absolved - same as those who are excluded from her communion (excommunicated) for moral offenses, iow, same as all Catholics must do to be absolved from their mortal sins.

I completely understand that this is offensive, even heretical to sedes since it does not fit the sede doctrine, in spite of that, there it is.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #401 on: January 10, 2023, 08:05:35 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2023, 07:58:11 AM
:laugh1: :facepalm: Stubbon declares an approved and well educated Catholic Canonist to be "some obscure nobody".  Instead we should listen to Stubborn, that FAMOUS SOMEBODY.

You're entitled to disagree, Stubborn, but not gratuitously, simply because you don't like what someone has to say.
Nobody even ever heard of Marato. I would like to know how long or how many books he had to page through for Fr. Cekada to find someone who fit his narrative.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #402 on: January 10, 2023, 08:28:51 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on January 10, 2023, 08:05:35 AM
Nobody even ever heard of Marato. I would like to know how long or how many books he had to page through for Fr. Cekada to find someone who fit his narrative.

This is no "narrative" by Father Cekada.  As I said, you're entitled to disagree and basically hold the Cajetan / John of St. Thomas opinion, as Father Chazal does, but you're not entitled to pretend that the Bellarmine opinion is made up by "sedes", some kind of invented narrative.  There are many others beside Morato who say the same thing.  Part of the problem is, as Decem pointed out, your notion of "Divine Law" is distorted / confused.  God never issued a Canon Law.  What's meant by divine law is something that proceeds inherently from the way that God has designed the Church, by the very definitions of Catholic ecclesiology.  So, when St. Robert states that someone cannot be head of the Church who is not a member, that is considered to be a position from divine law, meaning, from the nature of the Church as constituted by God.
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #403 on: January 10, 2023, 08:38:22 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2023, 08:28:51 AM
As I said, you're entitled to disagree and basically hold the Cajetan / John of St. Thomas opinion, as Father Chazal does, but you're not entitled to pretend that the Bellarmine opinion is made up by "sedes", some kind of invented narrative. 

Lad,

Father Kramer argues in his book that since the Vatican I council and its declaration of the injudicability of the pope by any authority on earth, and the codification of ipso facto loss of office for heresy in Canon 188 in 1917, the Cajetan/John of St. Thomas opinion is no longer tenable. I think he argues that all theologians post Vatican I and the 1917 code agree with him.

What are your thoughts on that argument?

DR
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #404 on: January 10, 2023, 08:41:14 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2023, 08:28:51 AM
This is no "narrative" by Father Cekada.  As I said, you're entitled to disagree and basically hold the Cajetan / John of St. Thomas opinion, as Father Chazal does, but you're not entitled to pretend that the Bellarmine opinion is made up by "sedes", some kind of invented narrative.  There are many others beside Morato who say the same thing.  Part of the problem is, as Decem pointed out, your notion of "Divine Law" is distorted / confused.  God never issued a Canon Law.  What's meant by divine law is something that proceeds inherently from the way that God has designed the Church, by the very definitions of Catholic ecclesiology.  So, when St. Robert states that someone cannot be head of the Church who is not a member, that is considered to be a position from divine law, meaning, from the nature of the Church as constituted by God.
I am not the one pretending anything - I've repeatedly said I don't care. What I care about is avoiding all things that could make me lose my greatest gift, my Catholic faith, which means I avoid all things NO, that's what I care about.

Since there is no advantage to sedeism over R&R, why promote the idea?
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