Author Topic: Benedict XVI (Read 19537 times)

CMMM · « **Reply #170 on:** October 17, 2009, 10:45:44 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Quote from: Pius IX, [i
ex cathedra[/i]]Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

The DEFINITIONS themselves are irreformable, and he clearly points out that it has nothing to do with the consent of the Church, meaning no matter what any members of the Church may say about the decrees, it is the decrees themselves that contain the dogmatic OBJECTIVE TRUTH, the decrees, the definitions themselves that are irreformable. You can't keep denying this without further and further darkening your conscience; it is a BLATANTLY BOLD denial of a Divinely revealed dogma.

Do you take any time to think?

A dogma has nothing to do with the consent of the Church. Where did I say that it did? I said the Church will maintain the sense.

I asked you, quite specifically, to show the decree that states the words alone convey the full sense in which it was declared.

You provide this, which states the definitions (dogmas) are irreformable. Fantastic, I agree. We're still stuck looking for your decree which states that the words convey the full sense of the decree.

CMMM · « **Reply #171 on:** October 17, 2009, 11:01:00 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

I wonder if you believe that the sun is at the center of the 'solar system' and that the earth revolves around it. The Fathers ALL believed the earth was stable at the center and the sun revolved around it. What say you?

The authority of the Fathers is binding only when they all agree upon a question of faith and morals. This, not being a question of either, is irrelevant.

CM · « **Reply #172 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:13:19 AM »

Quote from: C.M.M.M

The authority of the Fathers is binding only when they all agree upon a question of faith and morals. This, not being a question of either, is irrelevant.

Oh and where did you pick up this assertion you have made? Care to provide a Magisterial text?

So are you really going to say that the innerancy of Scripture is not a matter of faith? Pope Leo XIII would disagree with you and he even says that the "literal and obvious sense" is the sense we must hold unless it is untenable.

Also, do you believe that Scripture can err in matters of science or in history?

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #173 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:32:36 AM »

I agree, we have not been a true pope since Pius Xll.
I you disagree, what would be the explanation of the
wide spread decay of the Catholic Church since 1958.
Vatican 2 was the worse thing to happen to Holy Mother
Church. The Catholic population may still be high, but
the majority no longer believe what is necessary to be
saved. I always believe that the true third secret of
Fatima, that the lost of faith would start in high places
in the church. This is why I reject all popes since
Pius Xll.

CMMM · « **Reply #174 on:** October 18, 2009, 08:47:49 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Oh and where did you pick up this assertion you have made? Care to provide a Magisterial text?

Funny you should mention Pope Leo XII, it's in the exact same encyclical...

Quote from: Pope Leo XIII

We say, are of supreme authority, whenever they all interpret in one and the same manner any text of the Bible, as pertaining to the doctrine of faith or morals

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

So are you really going to say that the innerancy of Scripture is not a matter of faith? Pope Leo XIII would disagree with you and he even says that the "literal and obvious sense" is the sense we must hold unless it is untenable.

Also, do you believe that Scripture can err in matters of science or in history?

[quote = Pope Leo XIII]But he must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push inquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St. Augustine-not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires[/quote]

I believe it could. I believe the sun is the center of the solar system, but I am completely at ease if science or an infallible decree proclaims I must believe it to be not so.