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Author Topic: Benedict XV  (Read 3256 times)

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Offline Vladimir

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Benedict XV
« on: July 14, 2009, 12:48:21 AM »
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  • Hello I want to know what is meant by this passage of his first encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum:


    Quote
    1. Raised by the inscrutable counsel of Divine Providence without any merit of our own to the Chair of the Prince of the Apostles, we hearkened to those words of Christ Our Lord addressed to Peter, "Feed my lambs, feed my sheep" (John xxii. 15-17) as spoken to Ourselves, and at once with affectionate love we cast our eyes over the flock committed to our care-a numberless flock indeed, comprising in different ways the whole human race. For the whole of mankind was freed from the slavery of sin by the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ as their ransom, and there is no one who is excluded from the benefit of this Redemption: hence the Divine Pastor has one part of the human race already happily sheltered within the fold, the others He declares He will lovingly urge to enter therein: "and other sheep I have, that are not of this fold; them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice" (John x. 16).



    What is meant by "the whole of mankind was freed from the slavery of sin"?




    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 03:18:54 AM »
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  • What are you-- some kind of communist?
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Vladimir

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 11:18:22 AM »
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  • Another person on a different forum said this:
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    To attempt a brief, very incomplete answer:

    Before Christ's Incarnation, ALL men awaited redemption by way of the Divine concession. All were under the slavery of sin, original and actual. No soul could, yet, enter into Heaven.

    At Calvary, the grace of remission of sins was obtained insofar as Christ's sufferings obtained from the Father the forgiveness of ALL sin, both as to its implicit guilt and its condign punishment. Said forgiveness was and is an act of justice insofar as the binding, beating, scourging, humiliation and crucifixion of a Divine Person, offered freely to the Father under obedience to Him, offered then and now a supersatisfactory compensation to the Divine Justice for the injustice of men's sins against their Creator.

    Nevertheless, each individual ( and capable ) soul must seek the application of this satisfaction to himself through the normal means established by Christ: His Church and His Sacraments.

    Thus, while freely offered and made available to all, the Scriptures teach that, while Our Lord created and redeemed each man without the cooperation of any of us, not one of us can be redeemed unless each cooperates with the Divine plan of justification, i.e., seeking forgiveness by the means established by Christ Himself in His Church.



    Offline Caraffa

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 07:45:46 PM »
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  • Pray for me, always.

    Offline Vladimir

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 11:03:15 PM »
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  • I am not sure which writing that quote is from, but I know that it is authentic.

    CatholicMartyr, there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with desiring the salvation of all men. It is written that God desires that all men be saved. There is, however, something very wrong with saying that they can be saved without the true faith.




    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 11:15:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    What are you-- some kind of communist?
    This was meant in jest in light of the Vladamir  moniker-- I hope no offence was taken.

    imo it is enough to comprehend that the very election of Ben 15 is a fraud. That alone makes him an anti-pope. Some of his nefariuos actions have been brought out here lately and it adds to the evidence against him.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Vladimir

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 11:49:09 PM »
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  • I took no offense. I had chosen username after Vladimir Svyatoslavich the Great (Vladimir I).



    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 01:03:04 PM »
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  • The main source on the Ben 15 'election' is Papal Chamberlain by Mc Nutt.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Caraffa

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 02:34:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Interesting, Caraffa.  May I please have the title of the writing this is from?  And don't you agree that this is classic double talk?  He basically says one thing, and then says the exact opposite.  Which one is it, Antipope Benedict XV?  Should all states put aside mutual suspicion and unite into one league?  Catholic and non Catholic alike?  That's what you just said.  Oh wait- there are no Catholic states anymore, because they follow you, a manifestly heretical antipope, who professed the heresy that there is Christianity outside the Catholic Church and who makes no secret that he yearns for the salvation of all mankind, right after saying that there are none who are excluded from the benefits of Christ's redemption.  This certainly appears to be deliberate inculcation of heresy, by a double talking deceiver.

    Furthermore, is it impossible that he was a Mason, who realized that he took his "unite into one league" teaching just a little too far, and so one month later decided to reign it in a bit so as not to appear too conspicuous?


    The quote is from Benedict XV Motu Proprio Bonum Sane. It is available online in French and Italian. He made the statement you gave in May 1920, the one I gave in July 1920-perhaps he changed his mind.

    You're also not contextualizing this quote very well. Benedict XV was likely in shock from the fallout of WWI and wanted to prevent another one. It's not like you have to agree with Popes on their political decisions. I believe that Leo XIII was wrong to compromise and recognize the French Republic, and that Pius VII was very naive with Napoleon.

    As far as their being none excluded from Christ's redemption, that's true as salvation is known to all men and God wills that all will come to the Catholic truth (1 Timothy 2:4). However, that doesn't mean it will happen as man still has free will.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 04:15:08 PM »
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  • It is hard to understand why Pius VII rolled over for Napoleon. Maybe his Catholic heritage convinced the Pope that he could be reasoned with. A Julius II would have put down the Revolution.

    My understanding is that the recognition of the Fr Republic by Pope Leo had more to do with his desiring to get back the temporal power( this idea would not be given up until Ben 15).

    There was a faction in France promising to help the Pope if he would recognise the Republic. The Freemason Franz- Joseph certainly declined to help in this respect.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Caraffa

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 08:53:02 PM »
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  • CM, you think that Benedict XV was for universal salvation, yet you don't read what he says just a few paragraphs down in AD BEATISSIMI APOSTOLORUM: "From which principle the Apostle of the Gentiles infers that he who contumaciously resists the legitimate exercise of human authority, resists God and is preparing for himself eternal punishment: "Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation" (Rom. xiii. 2).
     
    Here is another from Benedict XV,IN PRAECLARA SUMMORUM: "It is thus that, according to the Divine Revelation, in this poem[Dante's] shines out the majesty of God One and Three, the Redemption of the human race operated by the Word of God made Man, the supreme loving-kindness and charity of Mary, Virgin and Mother, Queen of Heaven, and lastly the glory on high of Angels, Saints and men; then the terrible contrast to this, the pains of the impious in Hell;"

    That just about blows up your novelty that Benedict XV was into universal salvation.

    BTW Roscoe, it is calumny to accuse Emperor Franz-Joseph of being a freemason.
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #11 on: July 15, 2009, 09:13:00 PM »
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  • Franz-Joseph was  freemason who lied about Card Rampolla. He was 'surrounded by Judaics' acc to the Jєωιѕн author D Kertzer. He also refused for 50 years the pleas of Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pius X to assist in retaking the Papal States. Franz-Ferdinand made a public declaration ( through a proxy) to help the Pope do just that when he was suddenly murdered.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 09:14:37 PM »
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  • Pius IX wanred to ex-communicate Franz- Joseph but couldn't get away with it for political reasons.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline CMMM

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 03:34:25 PM »
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  • I'd be interested in seeing some of these quotes proving Baptism by Desire was not unanimously believed by the church fathers.  I've seen quotes from Mr. Martyr supporting, so It would be interesting to review the change in position, and try to find out why.

    Offline roscoe

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    Benedict XV
    « Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 02:37:30 AM »
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  • You are also mistaken re: Card Rampolla and Boniface.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'