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Author Topic: Benedict nearing death?  (Read 11783 times)

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Offline Meg

Re: Benedict nearing death?
« Reply #115 on: December 30, 2022, 09:59:54 AM »
Certainly he is a human being!  That is why we are praying for him.

But to

Deny the Resurrection of Our Lord Jesus
Deny the Incarnation
Receive, or "act like" he is receiving a "blessing" from a witchdoctor
Wear a hat with the Star of Remphan while saying Mass
Say that there are pagan saints
Write in his book that Jєωs don't need Jesus to go to Heaven
Say that all religions lead to Heaven

All while pretending to be pope!

That isn't "decent".

Leading souls to Hell isn't "decent".

Mocking and blaspheming Our Lord Jesus Christ

isn't "decent"!

That is an antichrist!

We already know that Benedict is and has been a modernist. That's not new. Or are you not aware of that?

See, sedevacantists rarely mention the problem of modernism, probably because it doesn't fit their narrative very well. Modernism is an admix of truth and error. Modernists, for the most part, don't believe that they are in error. An antichrist would likely know that he is leading souls to hell, wouldn't you think?



Re: Benedict nearing death?
« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2022, 10:04:42 AM »
You have used the term.  Give us your definition, please.
Actually, Sean has stated his definition, I believe it was on page 2 of this topic thread.

"If you believe the man claiming to be pope is an antipope, and furthermore, that nobody else is currently pope, you are by definition sedevacantist (as every sedevacantist will attest)"


Re: Benedict nearing death?
« Reply #117 on: December 30, 2022, 10:45:31 AM »
The indisputable truth of what we are instructed to do about heretical popes (bolded), is found in the beginning of cuм ex....

"1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought
that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman
Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the
fullness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world,
may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith."

Nowhere does cuм ex grant anyone the obligation, responsibility or right to decide the status of popes, in fact to do so is to go exactly contrary to what he says (underlined) above in #1.

That is truth.


Thanks for responding. 

Now I'm wondering why this quote appears to contradict all the other quotes I posted which had words indicating that no sentencing is necessary?

They include words like "ipso facto" and

"Those so promoted or elected, by that very fact and without the need to make any further declaration, shall be deprived of any dignity, position, honor, title, authority, office and power.”


and

"fall from office without any sentence, indeed, without even a declaratory one".

and

"by his own will cast outside"

and

"Wherefore, if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible anyway) he would lose his authority.”


And more things like that.


The "which would be impossible anyway" part appears to be saying that nobody can judge a pope, right?  We can't judge his judgement in matters of faith and morals, right?  That's because it is impossible for a true pope to profess heresy, right?

So does that mean he can't lose his office, title, authority etc. ?

The part I posted at the top appears to say that yes, indeed he does lose them regardless of the fact that nobody can judge him.

I could be wrong, but it seems there is a difference between judging a pope's judgement in matters of faith and morals vs judging if a man is the pope.

Nobody can overturn a pope's judgement so nobody, including a theologian or even a saint can overturn the papal bulls, right?

So when Sean says that Ex cuм is irrelevant wouldn't that be judging a pope?

In any case, several of the quotes I posted indicate that he was never pope to begin with so there is no pope to judge.  ::shrug::

If the Dali Lama or Kim Jong-Un were elected pope would we be able to judge that they are not a pope on the grounds that they are not even Catholic?  It is invalid matter so no consecration could take place right?

Perhaps you could read those quotes and the questions I posted below them and answer them please?  I'd really appreciate it!


Here is the post:
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/benedict-nearing-death/msg863263/#msg863263



Re: Benedict nearing death?
« Reply #118 on: December 30, 2022, 10:59:08 AM »
We already know that Benedict is and has been a modernist. That's not new. Or are you not aware of that?

See, sedevacantists rarely mention the problem of modernism, probably because it doesn't fit their narrative very well. Modernism is an admix of truth and error. Modernists, for the most part, don't believe that they are in error. An antichrist would likely know that he is leading souls to hell, wouldn't you think?
Meg, 

I know you love Our Lord,

saying that the Incarnation and Resurrection of Our Dear Lord Jesus

 Christ didn't really happen isn't just a

little mixture of some truth and some error.

It's a total rejection of the Catholic Faith.

Is there a greater insult to Jesus?

And from the supposed "Vicar of Christ"?


Prayer of Reparation for these wounds caused by Benedict to Our Lord and Savior:


O Jesus, my Saviour and Redeemer, Son of the living God, behold, we kneel before

 Thee and offer Thee our reparation; we would make amends for all the blasphemies

 uttered against Thy holy name, for all the injuries done to Thee in the Blessed

 Sacrament, for all the irreverence shown toward Thine Immaculate Virgin Mother, for

 all the calumnies and slanders spoken against Thy spouse, the holy Catholic and

 Roman Church. O Jesus, who hast said: "If you ask the Father anything in My name,

 He will give it to you", we pray and beseech Thee for all our brethren who are in

 danger of sin; shield them from every temptation to fall away from the true faith; save

 those who are even now standing on the brink of the abyss; to all of them give light

 and knowledge of the truth, courage and strength for the conflict with evil,

 perseverance in faith and active charity! For this do we pray, most merciful Jesus, in

 Thy name, unto God the Father, with whom Thou livest and reignest in the unity of the

 Holy Spirit world without end. Amen

Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Benedict nearing death?
« Reply #119 on: December 30, 2022, 11:01:50 AM »

The indisputable truth of what we are instructed to do about heretical popes (bolded), is found in the beginning of cuм ex....

"1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought
that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman
Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the
fullness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world,
may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith."

Nowhere does cuм ex grant anyone the obligation, responsibility or right to decide the status of popes, in fact to do so is to go exactly contrary to what he says (underlined) above in #1.

That is truth.

Stubborn,


As you recall, I generally agree with your approach on this. I may differ with you as to some conclusions, but I agree with you in principle.

But here's the thing: what does "judged" mean in your quote? The same bull of Paul IV says this:

Quote

In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-]


that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
(ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
(iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
(iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
(v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

7. Finally, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, define and decree]:-
that any and all persons who would have been subject to those thus promoted or elevated if they had not previously deviated from the Faith, become heretics, incurred schism or provoked or committed any or all of these, be they members of anysoever of the following categories:
(i) the clergy, secular and religious;
(ii) the laity;
(iii) the Cardinals, even those who shall have taken part in the election of this very Pontiff previously deviating from the Faith or heretical or schismatical, or shall otherwise have consented and vouchsafed obedience to him and shall have venerated him;
(iv) Castellans, Prefects, Captains and Officials, even of Our Beloved City and of the entire Ecclesiastical State, even if they shall be obliged and beholden to those thus promoted or elevated by homage, oath or security;
shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs (the same subject persons, nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Roman Pontiff canonically entering).

http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/encyclicals/Paul04/cuмex.html


The Sedes, by same bull, have total warrant to reject the false pope, and treat him as having no authority.

So it is apparent, unless you want to say Paul IV contradicted himself, doing the above is not "judging" as he meant it.